[Jacob-list] predator question

[Carl Fosbrink]

Linda,

    We have had some reports of badgers here now and I would not be surprised if the DNR didn't turn those loose. Of course they always deny doing so, but no one would keep one as a pet and turn it loose and there aren't any close so they wouldn't migrate in here. I live just two miles from a wildlife refuge and a badger was run over on the highway next to it. 
    I love wildlife, but this county is too populated for some of these critters and they were eliminated in the past because they were a problem. DNR doesn't seem smart enough to understand that they are re-introducing problems for people with livestock. Of course farmers are only 1% of the population now so they probably just don't care.

Carl


From: Linda 
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 5:24 PM
To: marguerite van beek 
Cc: Carl Fosbrink ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com ; Neal Grose ; Karen Askounis 
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] predator question


Kinda scary to think what they are going to bring in to kill the mountain lions!
Linda

On 9/29/2012 5:04 PM, marguerite van beek wrote:

  Carl 


  Yes that is what they did here in NJ they got some coyotes from AZ to help curb the deer population.  Now they are out of control, breeding with dogs and very hard to kill.  So I heard from a State employee they released mountain lions to kill the coyotes.  NJ playing mother nature at its best.  


  Peg


  On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 4:38 PM, Carl Fosbrink <fourhornfarm at frontier.com> wrote:

    It is not unusual for the department of fish and game to deny that certain animals exist. It is because they are the ones that turned them loose. Here in Southern Indiana they were the ones that turned the first coyotes loose and now they are everywhere. We also have reports of mountain lions seen eating on road kill deer. I have a 4 ft. fence with electric over the top and around the bottom and I thought that would keep dogs and coyotes out until I saw a coyote that had gotten into the sheep clear it all with one easy jump. Luckily he didn't kill any sheep. We also have Bobcats, but they would not be a threat on adult sheep.


    From: Neal Grose 
    Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 4:55 PM
    To: marguerite van beek ; Richard and Susan 
    Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com ; Karen Askounis 
    Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] predator question


    Well, I and several other people here in our  foothills NC community have indeed seen a Mountain lion, but he seemed to be moving through to somewhere else. The wildlife agent confirmed the description and said that they think many of these are released "pets" (which, by the way, are not illegal to keep since they are no longer considered "native wildlife", and if your county does not specifically prohibit keeping of exotic animals.)
    Small ears, tail as long as the rest of the body, and a "loose jointed" gait on the front shoulders, they are hard to confuse with a dog or small bear. Plus I found footprints.
    Neal Grose

    From: marguerite van beek 
    Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 3:02 PM
    To: Richard and Susan 
    Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com ; Karen Askounis 
    Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] predator question

    Susan 

    They say the same thing about Mountain Lions over here in NJ.  They don't exist, yet they have many reported sightings throughout NJ. Our vet several yrs ago and a few miles from our farm went out on a emergency call for a reported attack on two horses.  The State kept stating it was a bear attack, the vet who was from S. Dakota said you are sadly mistaken this was done by a mountain Lion (horses had claw marks down their hind end) then they said that he had to keep quiet about this and they did ended up catching a breeding pair.  But they still say they don't exist.  You can't protect your sheep from a mountain lion almost impossible.  

    Peggy


    On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Richard and Susan <stcroft at ptd.net> wrote:

      Here in southeastern Pennsylvania an occasional coyote attack on sheep will occur.  A few yrs. ago a farmer lost several adult ewes to a group of coyotes at a location not far from us - and we have heard coyotes calling at night but have never lost any sheep.  Interestingly, here throughout the state there are many reported sightings of mountain lions but the Pennsylvania Game Commission is adamant that they don't exist.  We have never seen one or had a problem - however, a farmer only a few miles from us occasionally sees a mountain lion drinking from his pond.  Upstate the mountain folks who know the woods like the "backs of their hands" are equally adamant that they repeatedly see mountain lions - which really are not easy to confuse with other wild feline types in our State - our bobcats are quite a bit smaller with no tail, etc.  All that to say that any shepherd or farmer who complains to our state's Game Commission of a mountain lion killing will not receive a lot of support - since they don't exist!



      A few years ago we had an adult ewe killed by a neighbor's Siberian Husky - the dog was not aggressive to humans but sheep brought out his primal instincts - and in that situation the dog was interested only in the chase and the kill - he did not tear open the carcass or eat anything whatsoever.  He also wounded a ewe lamb so severely she had to be euthanized.  Our local police advised us that our State laws permit us to shoot on sight any animal that is killing out livestock.  This particular dog was a family pet, very sweet to humans and a nice dog - but the State Dog Catcher required that they relinquish ownership and the husky was put into a husky rescue - and hopefully he ended up living somewhere far from sheep!!



      Sue Martin

      Stonecroft









      From: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com [mailto:jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com] On Behalf Of Karen Askounis
      Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:41 PM
      To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
      Subject: [Jacob-list] predator question



      For those of you who have lost sheep to coyotes is it common to have almost nothing remaining after the attack? I have lost two ram lambs (one at a time) - the first one simply was gone without a trace! No blood, no wool, no wool or hair over or under fences - nothing. The second one - as is usually the case - my most favorite sheep of all time L - found one piece of hide, some bits of wool, his tail, no blood anywhere in pasture, again no wool or hair on any exterior fences. These were ram lambs about 6 months old. They were in with a donkey. Not sure if I should be mad at the donkey or happy he kept losses to one lamb each time. This pasture had a hot wire across the top but no lower predator hot wire (until last weekend, after the fact of course). There were a few spots where the ground had washed away a bit under the fence leaving some space under the fence where I figure they got in. Does this sound like a pack of coyotes or should I be looking for something else? We are in north eastern Illinois. Not sure what other predators to be thinking of.



      On a slightly different subject - does anyone think sheep with un-docked tails are easier for predators to catch??



      Karen Askounis

      Three Fates Farm

      Crete, IL

      kaskounis at threefatesjacobs.com




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