[Jacob-list] Black F1

[Gary Anderson]

Jaci, I am not an expert on color genetics in Jacobs, but Fred Horak.  If I
told you that Jacobs are basically black with patches of white, it's because
I remember Fred saying so.  I hope Fred is lurking and will weigh in,
although I think Neal summarized well what to expect when a Jacob is crossed
with another breed.

Gary Anderson
Hillside Jacobs

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:05 PM
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Subject: Jacob-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 9

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Today's Topics:

   1. crossbreeding (hobbyknobfarm)
   2. Re: crossbreeding (gotothewhip at aol.com)
   3. Re: crossbreeding (Neal and Louise Grose)
   4. Re: Need any medical help on ram (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
   5. Re: crossbreeding (Jaci Siehl)


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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:34:06 -0500
From: "hobbyknobfarm" <hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us>
Subject: [Jacob-list] crossbreeding
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <039123A13FD547559A6FDD694DCC4848 at daron1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Miranda,
My colored cotswold ram crossed himself with one of my Jacob ewes last year
and I got 2 cute black with a little white ram lambs (now wethers) the
fleece is long with a more open crimp. I believe I read somewhere (and Neal
mentioned this) that you get the black or dark when you cross with a Jacob.
A friend of mine has a jacob/cotswold ewe and I always liked the fleece,
very nice open curls but it is grey and not black or as dark as mine. I
think someone on this list, bide a wee? does the same thing with border
leceister and Jacob and I remember seeing their lambs last year and they
looked just like mine. And they have really cute little, manageable horns. 
Elizabeth 
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:57:19 -0500
From: gotothewhip at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] crossbreeding
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Message-ID: <8CC5C47A8AA800C-2BF8-71E0 at webmail-m091.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



This is so curious!  I have a lady who boards 2 nice ramboullets for
handspinning with my Jacob flock (they certainally stick out!) and she
inquired about using my ram next year... Other than digging a hole for her
ewes to stand in, (LOL) the thought is interesting!  

It is thought provoking  that all of the F1 generation is solid black or
colored, but is solid, not spotted or varigated? (or am I misinterpreting
what is said) and when you say colored, are you seeing lilacs, browns or?

For those with experience with F1 crosses, were any ewe lambs from the F1
used for breeding?  If so, what were the results of that breeding (and was
it bred back to F1 or to a purebred?)  Horns, coloring and the other
aspects?

Jennifer Tucker
Moose Mtn Ranch





-----Original Message-----
From: hobbyknobfarm <hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:34 am
Subject: [Jacob-list] crossbreeding


Miranda,
My colored cotswold ram crossed himself with one of my Jacob ewes last year
and I got 2 cute black with a little white ram lambs (now wethers) the
fleece is long with a more open crimp. I believe I read somewhere (and Neal
mentioned this) that you get the black or dark when you cross with a Jacob.
A friend of mine has a jacob/cotswold ewe and I always liked the fleece,
very nice open curls but it is grey and not black or as dark as mine. I
think someone on this list, bide a wee? does the same thing with border
leceister and Jacob and I remember seeing their lambs last year and they
looked just like mine. And they have really cute little, manageable horns. 
Elizabeth 

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acob-list at jacobsheep.com
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:50:24 -0500
From: "Neal and Louise Grose" <nlgrose at yadtel.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] crossbreeding
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <3B1AFF12AA2648728E2D050C1FB17446 at HAL2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jacob Crosses will be black (sometimes with marked faces) unless there is
already a piebald gene in the other breed. Such breeds will include the
Merino derived breeds such as Dorsett, Coriedale and Ramboullet. You will
also get some funky stuff from Navajo, Barbados and Finns.

By colored, we are saying we expect to see these crosses grey out more
quickly. 

Crossing lilac Jacob to other breeds will probably STILL give you black
lambs. There may well be more than one type of lilac, but the ones we have
are carrying the dominate black gene and this has come through both in
crosses to white longwools and moorit Shetland. Shetland is the most
recessive allele, and crosses to it are the only way to look at the
influence of one set of alelles in the color expression.

Neal
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: gotothewhip at aol.com 
  To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] crossbreeding



  This is so curious!  I have a lady who boards 2 nice ramboullets for
handspinning with my Jacob flock (they certainally stick out!) and she
inquired about using my ram next year... Other than digging a hole for her
ewes to stand in, (LOL) the thought is interesting!  

  It is thought provoking  that all of the F1 generation is solid black or
colored, but is solid, not spotted or varigated? (or am I misinterpreting
what is said) and when you say colored, are you seeing lilacs, browns or?

  For those with experience with F1 crosses, were any ewe lambs from the F1
used for breeding?  If so, what were the results of that breeding (and was
it bred back to F1 or to a purebred?)  Horns, coloring and the other
aspects?

  Jennifer Tucker
  Moose Mtn Ranch




  -----Original Message-----
  From: hobbyknobfarm <hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us>
  To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  Sent: Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:34 am
  Subject: [Jacob-list] crossbreeding


  Miranda,
  My colored cotswold ram crossed himself with one of my Jacob ewes last
year and I got 2 cute black with a little white ram lambs (now wethers) the
fleece is long with a more open crimp. I believe I read somewhere (and Neal
mentioned this) that you get the black or dark when you cross with a Jacob.
A friend of mine has a jacob/cotswold ewe and I always liked the fleece,
very nice open curls but it is grey and not black or as dark as mine. I
think someone on this list, bide a wee? does the same thing with border
leceister and Jacob and I remember seeing their lambs last year and they
looked just like mine. And they have really cute little, manageable horns. 
  Elizabeth 
_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:41:35 -0800
From: "ARTHUR PARTRIDGE" <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Need any medical help on ram
To: "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <410-22010125194135500 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII


>The only thing I would add is to be sure to turn him to help prevent 

>pneumonia--ie don't let him lay on one side more than a few hours.

>Louise 

========
Yes, it is important to get them up or at least moved around often.  Linda
mentioned some ways to help them up.  My friend who raises Icelandics uses
a sling hooked on a tractor.  They drive the tractor up to the sheep and
hook the sling on the front part of the tractor, or maybe they back it up
and use something on the back.  They put the sling around the belly of the
sheep and then use the tractor to slooooowly lift the sheep to its feet.  I
haven't seen it done, but I assume they don't lift the animal off the
ground, just enough to help it on its feet.  Sometimes it works, sometimes
the sheep is too far gone and has to be put down.  I don't know how long
they keep the animal up, maybe a few minutes at first and then longer times
later. 

Cathy
Moscow, Idaho




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:59:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Jaci Siehl <sugarpinejacobs at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] crossbreeding
To: JacobList <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <118434.31841.qm at web113815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Please someone let me know if I am correct on this or not....... I think
that the reason we get black (or very dark) F1 offspring is because a Jacob
is really a black sheep with white spots........not just because?black is
generally a dominate color.

Gary, am I correct in my thinking?

Jaci Siehl
Sugarpine Jacobs
530-538-9474


      
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