[SPAM] RE: [R129 SL] Car folks stuff...
gregoiro@weststargroup.net
r129list@mbcoupes.com
Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:58:11 -0700
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I guess I started a pretty good dialogue on "older vs. newer" , but I =
have been hearing (and reading here) the opposite of Mr. Winkler's =
experiences for the later Benz models. I have a 93 400E with 120K miles =
(I've owned the car since it had 50K miles on it) - it has been the =
sweetest car I've ever owned! Virtually nothing has had to be done to =
the car until about 112K miles when I put in a new transmission. It's =
still tight, solid, fast, quiet, and it doesn't leak or burn a drop of =
oil. I am a bit of a fanatic and keep it in beautiful condition in & out =
(people ask me if I ever drive it), but I assume most of us in this =
group are the same type of "car nuts". Don't get me wrong, I like some =
of the later '90 models, but they don't seem to have that Mercedes feel =
- they feel almost (egads!) Lexus-like! Give me that solid, powerful =
German feel anyday over an upscale Toyota!=20
my 2 cents...
Cheers,
Greg Conte
'93 MBZ 400E
'91 500SL
'76 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Michael Winiker=20
To: 'r129list@mbcoupes.com'=20
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 6:41 AM
Subject: [SPAM] RE: [R129 SL] Car folks stuff...
I've never responded to this list, but I do find many of the e-mails =
interesting, particularly these most recent comments concerning old vs. =
newer. My family and I have driven Benzs exclusively since the 70s and =
continue to love them, with 9 currently between 4 households. Truth be =
told we always buy used since the initial depreciation is outrageous, so =
I can't speak about anything newer than a 2001, but cars from the late =
90s should not be considered too much trouble. The '96-2002 generation =
E, for example, is far superior to the previous generation E in my =
opinion. Sacrilege! Yes, I know from having owned 3 that the older =
ones ('86-'95) feel "tighter" and by '90 had slightly higher quality =
interior finishings (but even those were lamented as "kinda cheap" when =
the car debuted back in the mid-80s), but the mechanics and overall =
reliability of the newer generation Es are clearly superior. The newer =
ones are bigger, considerably faster and deliver at least 50% better =
fuel economy in real world driving. That's a pretty neat achievement, =
presumably attributable to advanced technology. My father-in-law has a =
'98 E320 4matic with 198,000 kms (120,000-odd miles) with ABSOLUTELY NO =
mechanical repairs. Motor, transmission, 4WD system, A/C, power =
windows...nor any other component has ever required repair. A fluke? =
Perhaps, but I'll tell you, the old guy drives like a full-on maniac. =
With mileage like that I can speak from experience that many previous =
generation Es would have required a head gasket, some may have required =
transmission repair, virtually all would have needed a complete A/C job =
(or two) and lets not even get started about the power window issue =
which took MB about 40 years to solve. As for the 4matics, the early =
ones were a complete and well-documented fiasco, bad enough to knock =
them out of the North American market for 5 or 6.
I'll concede spurious "Check Engine" lights have become a real scourge =
at MBs and other makers, and my '97 SL500 is no exception, but the =
general reliability my family has experienced with later-model cars is =
better than Benzs-past, especially as it concerns the major (re: =
"expensive") stuff. Just my opinion, sorry for any agitation caused....
Regards to all,
Mike from T.O.
-----Original Message-----
From: r129list-admin@mbcoupes.com =
[mailto:r129list-admin@mbcoupes.com]On Behalf Of Tom Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:19 PM
To: r129list@mbcoupes.com
Subject: Re: [R129 SL] Car folks stuff...
Personally, (and it's just my opinion), I wouldn't buy '94 or newer. =
Not sure when marketing's influence became greater than engineering's, =
but it must have been around then.
Regards,
Tom Reynolds
Hereford, AZ
-----Original Message-----=20
From: Alvamike@aol.com=20
Sent: Jul 14, 2004 7:56 PM=20
To: r129list@mbcoupes.com=20
Subject: Re: [R129 SL] Car folks stuff...=20
Yep, I have heard the bad stories about the newer cars. I recently =
commented to Bob Beckmann of Beckmann Technologies about how my 1987 560 =
SEL looked better all the time as far as maintaining a great running car =
without all of the electronic headaches. I was discussing a check =
engine lite on my 92 600 SEL when he commented, "If you think they are =
bad (as far as keeping the electronics straightened out) you should see =
the 2000 and up......They are a REAL challenge."
That is very scarry coming from him, a rebuilder of electronic =
parts.
I would say recently it appears Mercedes got more of Chrysler, than =
the other way around. Not good.
Ultimately if they make the cars so complicated that the average guy =
can't keep them going reasonably, then the resale value will plumit, =
leading to an even steeper depreciation curve, leading to even less =
sales for them. They have to get their act together soon or I may not =
be able to ever buy a newer one due to maintenance cost.
I'm 55 so the ones I do have will last the rest of my lifetime for =
sure.
Mike in Morgantown, PA
The MB Coupes Website! R129 SL Mailing List
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
___________
This email, and any files transmitted, is confidential and may contain =
privileged information. Any unauthorized dissemination or copying is =
strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please =
delete it and notify the sender immediately. Any views or opinions =
presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not =
necessarily represent those of Raymond James Ltd. This email is intended =
for distribution only in those jurisdictions where Raymond James Ltd. is =
registered as a dealer in securities. It is for information purposes =
only and is not to be construed as an offer or solicitation for the sale =
or purchase of securities. This footnote also confirms that this email =
message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses.
Instructions received may not be acted upon in a timely manner. Please =
contact us directly by telephone to place trades or request =
transactions.
Raymond James Ltd. is a member of the Canadian Investor Protection =
Fund.
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I guess I started a pretty good =
dialogue on=20
"older vs. newer" , but I have been hearing (and reading here) =
the=20
opposite of Mr. Winkler's experiences for the later Benz =
models. I=20
have a 93 400E with 120K miles (I've owned the car since it had 50K =
miles on it)=20
- it has been the sweetest car I've ever owned! Virtually nothing has =
had to be=20
done to the car until about 112K miles when I put in a new =
transmission. =20
It's still tight, solid, fast, quiet, and it doesn't leak or burn a drop =
of oil.=20
I am a bit of a fanatic and keep it in beautiful condition in & out =
(people=20
ask me if I ever drive it), but I assume most of us in this group are =
the same=20
type of "car nuts". Don't get me wrong, I like some of the later =
'90=20
models, but they don't seem to have that Mercedes feel - they feel =
almost=20
(egads!) Lexus-like! Give me that solid, powerful German feel =
anyday=20
over an upscale Toyota! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>my 2 cents...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greg Conte</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>'93 MBZ 400E</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>'91 500SL</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>'76 Rolls Royce Silver =
Shadow</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DMichael.WINIKER@raymondjames.ca=20
href=3D"mailto:Michael.WINIKER@raymondjames.ca">Michael Winiker</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dr129list@mbcoupes.com=20
href=3D"mailto:'r129list@mbcoupes.com'">'r129list@mbcoupes.com'</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 15, 2004 =
6:41=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [SPAM] RE: [R129 SL] =
Car folks=20
stuff...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D693455712-15072004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I've=20
never responded to this list, but I do find many of the e-mails =
interesting,=20
particularly these most recent comments concerning old vs. =
newer. My=20
family and I have driven Benzs exclusively since the 70s and continue =
to love=20
them, with 9 currently between 4 households. Truth be told we =
always buy=20
used since the initial depreciation is outrageous, so I can't speak =
about=20
anything newer than a 2001, but cars from the late 90s should not be=20
considered too much trouble. The '96-2002 generation E, for =
example, is far superior to the previous generation E in my =
opinion. =20
<EM>Sacrilege!</EM> Yes, I know from having owned 3 that the =
older ones=20
('86-'95) feel "tighter" and by '90 had slightly higher quality =
interior=20
finishings (but even those were lamented as "kinda cheap" when the car =
debuted=20
back in the mid-80s), but the mechanics and overall reliability of the =
newer=20
generation Es are clearly superior. The newer ones are =
bigger,=20
considerably faster and deliver at least 50% better fuel economy in =
real world=20
driving. That's a pretty neat achievement, =
presumably attributable=20
to advanced technology. My father-in-law has a '98 E320 4matic =
with=20
198,000 kms (120,000-odd miles) with ABSOLUTELY NO mechanical =
repairs. =20
Motor, transmission, 4WD system, A/C, power windows...nor any other =
component=20
has ever required repair. A fluke? Perhaps, but I'll tell you, =
the old=20
guy drives like a full-on maniac. With mileage like that I can =
speak=20
from experience that many previous generation Es would have =
required a=20
head gasket, some may have required transmission repair, virtually all =
would=20
have needed a complete A/C job (or two) and lets not even get started =
about=20
the power window issue which took MB about 40 years =
to solve. =20
As for the 4matics, the early ones were a complete and well-documented =
fiasco,=20
bad enough to knock them out of the North American market for 5 or=20
6.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D693455712-15072004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D693455712-15072004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I'll=20
concede spurious "Check Engine" lights have become a real scourge at =
MBs and=20
other makers, and my '97 SL500 is no exception, but the general=20
reliability my family has experienced with later-model cars is better =
than=20
Benzs-past, especially as it concerns the major (re: "expensive") =
stuff. =20
Just my opinion, sorry for any agitation =
caused....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D693455712-15072004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D693455712-15072004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Regards to all,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D693455712-15072004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Mike=20
from T.O.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
r129list-admin@mbcoupes.com =
[mailto:r129list-admin@mbcoupes.com]<B>On Behalf=20
Of </B>Tom Reynolds<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:19=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> r129list@mbcoupes.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [R129 =
SL] Car=20
folks stuff...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Personally, (and it's just my opinion), I wouldn't buy '94 or=20
newer. Not sure when marketing's influence became greater than =
engineering's, but it must have been around then.</DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV>Tom Reynolds</DIV>
<DIV>Hereford, AZ</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message----- <BR>From: =
Alvamike@aol.com=20
<BR>Sent: Jul 14, 2004 7:56 PM <BR>To: r129list@mbcoupes.com =
<BR>Subject:=20
Re: [R129 SL] Car folks stuff... <BR><BR><ZZZHTML><FONT=20
face=3Darial,helvetica><ZZZHTML><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 =
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10">Yep, I have heard the bad =
stories about=20
the newer cars. I recently commented to Bob Beckmann of =
Beckmann=20
Technologies about how my 1987 560 SEL looked better all the time as =
far as=20
maintaining a great running car without all of the electronic=20
headaches. I was discussing a check engine lite on my 92 600 =
SEL when=20
he commented, "If you think they are bad (as far as keeping the =
electronics=20
straightened out) you should see the 2000 and up......They are a =
REAL=20
challenge."<BR><BR>That is very scarry coming from him, a rebuilder =
of=20
electronic parts.<BR><BR>I would say recently it appears Mercedes =
got more=20
of Chrysler, than the other way around. Not =
good.<BR><BR>Ultimately if=20
they make the cars so complicated that the average guy can't keep =
them going=20
reasonably, then the resale value will plumit, leading to an even =
steeper=20
depreciation curve, leading to even less sales for them. They =
have to=20
get their act together soon or I may not be able to ever buy a newer =
one due=20
to maintenance cost.<BR>I'm 55 so the ones I do have will last the =
rest of=20
my lifetime for sure.<BR><BR>Mike in Morgantown,=20
PA<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></ZZZHTML></FONT>The MB Coupes Website! R129 =
SL=20
Mailing List</BLOCKQUOTE><FONT=20
=
size=3D3><BR><BR>________________________________________________________=
____________________________<BR><BR>This=20
email, and any files transmitted, is confidential and may contain =
privileged=20
information. Any unauthorized dissemination or copying is strictly =
prohibited.=20
If you have received this email in error, please delete it and notify =
the=20
sender immediately. Any views or opinions presented in this email are =
solely=20
those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Raymond =
James=20
Ltd. This email is intended for distribution only in those =
jurisdictions where=20
Raymond James Ltd. is registered as a dealer in securities. It is for=20
information purposes only and is not to be construed as an offer or=20
solicitation for the sale or purchase of securities. This footnote =
also=20
confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of =
computer=20
viruses.<BR><BR>Instructions received may not be acted upon in a =
timely=20
manner. Please contact us directly by telephone to place trades or =
request=20
transactions.<BR><BR>Raymond James Ltd. is a member of the Canadian =
Investor=20
Protection=20
=
Fund.<BR>________________________________________________________________=
____________________<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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