[Jacob-list] Ed and E+

[Hettick, Heather]

Lilac Jacobs are definitely not b/b, because lilac ewes bred to a moorit ram who is definitely b/b, I get only black.  There is a new sheep color genetics book out "The Coat of Many Colors, A Survey of Sheep Color Pattern" , by Margaret Howard, that addresses a lot of the patterns and I hope to get it for my birthday, but I doubt even that addresses Jacob lilac and how to code it.  I agree with Neal though that's it's inherited recessively similar to brown b/b in  other breeds, but it is not the same as b/b nor do I think it's related to Ed.

I think the dilute explanation makes sense, but don't know how you would code that either or if it occurs in other breeds and what it would look like.


Heather Hettick
From: Linda [mailto:patchworkfibers at windstream.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 7:51 PM
To: Neal Grose
Cc: Hettick, Heather; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Ed and E+

I don't even pretend to understand the genetics behind lilac. I'm trying.
Some Jacobs are probably EdE+. Even with progeny testing, unless you were crossbreeding, you would seldom see an indication in the lambs. I'm not really going to worry about it much.
I've read two explanations for the gene that produces lilac Jacobs. Both presume Ed/Ed or Ed/E+. One is that they are b/b (brown/brown) recessive to B (black) at the black loci. There has been some research on determining the cell pigment color on lilac Jacobs in comparison to the Soay brown, which I hope will be shared. The other explanation is that lilac is a simple recessive dilute. Dan Carpenter did some microscopic studies which support this, although some say that the dilute gene is unproven in sheep. All theories agree that the lilac gene is not carried at the extension loci (which is not the same as the black loci), although I haven't yet found anyone that knows just where the lilac gene is carried.
It's a pretty interesting subject.

Linda
On 5/6/2013 1:29 PM, Neal Grose wrote:
Our experience here is that you must cross a lilac carrier to a lilac carrier to produce lilac. In other words, there must be two copies of the lilac gene to suppress the dominant black. Therefore, it is not carried at the black loci (Ed ).

Neal Grose

-----Original Message----- From: Hettick, Heather
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 10:25 AM
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com<mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Subject: [Jacob-list] Ed and E+

I think most Jacobs are considered EdEd, but some are EdE+.  I had a lilac ewe who produced a spotted black badgerfaced lamb with an Icelandic ram who was black badgerfaced and carried spotting, so she had to be EdE+.   She also tended to fade a lot, which may or may not make a difference. The two lilac ewes I still have only produced black lambs bred to a solid moorit Icelandic ram two years in a row.  This year they both have black or black/white spotted lambs bred to a white ram who carries spotting.  I feel fairly confident that they are both EdEd.

I have a Jacob/ mostlyTunis cross ewe who produces the coolest colored lambs.  She is EdE+ and looks like a Jacob cross - black with a small  white spot on her poll.  Bred to Jacob rams, she produced classic looking black with some white lambs.   Last year, with a moorit solid Icelandic ram, she had two blue ewe lambs.  I think their pattern is considered light blue - they have tear spots and their bodies grayed from the sides outwards leaving a dark line down their backs, and they have black legs and faces.   This pattern has to  come from their mother, either hidden under Jacob Ed or from the Tunis side which includes a colored Romney ancestor as her "Tunis" mother was 1/8 Romney.

This year we bred her to a black mouflon (reverse badgerface) ram who carries moorit and spotting and got two spotted lambs with both the mouflon pattern and probably her blue pattern, and a weird brown ram who is graying from the skin.   I don't think she carries moorit, although her Jacob father was a lilac carrier - which isn't moorit anyway.   I'm not sure if he's actually moorit or just phao colored from the Tunis side.  He doesn't have the teardrop spots, but has some kind of gray pattern - more like Icelandic gray, but his father doesn't carry gray.   I think she carries the light blue pattern and a gray pattern, which we couldn't see because of the Ed and one of her patterns would have to come from her Jacob sire.

One of her half Icelandic daughters had a classic colored Jacob cross ewe lamb - black with white cap.  This one makes sense since our white ram is black under his white and carries spotting and I think has the solid, pattern based on other lambs he produced.  The other daughter had another sort of strange brown ram.  He actually looks more like he could be  a white with phao lamb though as the color is patchier and lighter than our other brown cross ram.  Both daughters were bred to our white Icelandic ram who I don't think carries moorit so I think this brown lamb probably is white with phao.

I don't understand phao coloring too much, but I think that's what the Tunis's have that makes them red.  Is it possible this could be what lilac is?

When I see phao in Icelandics, it's more tan or golden, although I've heard it can be a stronger color too.  Some Tunis really have dark red, and my one lamb who may  have phao coloring has really rich brown on his face and legs. I wish I had room to keep him and could breed him to my lilac Jacob ewes to see what we'd get.


Heather Hettick
Moonstruck Farm
Creston, OH
www.moonstruckfarm.wordpress.com<http://www.moonstruckfarm.wordpress.com>








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