[Jacob-list] When things go wrong... they can go very, very wrong......

[Jennifer]

Linda, If the lamb is getting better without Se Supplementation, it is not WMD



-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at windstream.net>
To: spotted_sheep <spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com>
Cc: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 4:25 am
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] When things go wrong... they can go very, very wrong......


So this lamb, who seems to be getting better, probably does not have wmd. Correct?

Linda

On 5/3/2012 12:54 AM, spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com wrote: 

Realized I probably just sent that to Linda and should have hit "reply all", sorry, habit....


No, they would just get progressively worse and eventually die. Unless they somehow got a selenium supplement somewhere else (highly unlikely unless you gave it some orally....), even then it might not work fast enough.


Marie
Spot Hollow Farm

--- patchworkfibers at windstream.net wrote:

From: Linda <patchworkfibers at windstream.net>
To: spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com
CC: joy <jspidle1 at yahoo.com>, jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] When things go wrong... they can go very, very wrong......
Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 21:47:53 -0400

I have no experience with WMD so excuse a stupid question. Would a lamb with WMD get stronger without a bose shot? I keep bose around, but have never used it.
I've had ewes that prefer not to nurse their lambs until all the lambs are born (and some that wait until they have passed and sometimes eaten the afterbirth). Maybe this ewe just didn't get the hormone rush to entice her to nurse or was waiting for another lamb. Since she was cleaning her lambs, she obviously had maternal instincts. 
It will get better.
Linda. 

On 5/2/2012 8:14 AM, spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com wrote: 
Your ewe lamb has white muscle disease most likely. Give her 1cc of BOSE (vitamin E + selenium) and she should come around faster, if not give her up to another 1cc, but not much more than that or you'll OD her.

The ram probably starved/was hypothermic... That is a hard decision even for seasoned shepherds...pull the lamb and bottle feed it and maybe save it, but then have to raise it yourself and leave the ewe all alone. Or leave the lamb with the ewe and hope she'll come around and raise it, because lambs always do better with mom. I've "learned" that lesson many times and every time I think to myself "next time I'll just pull the lamb and be sure it's ok..." and then it happens again...It is just so hard to pull a lamb off it's mother.

Now the ewe is a harder case... Probably either a retained placenta, or a retained third lamb (either long dead or recently dead) both of which would cause the pushing, fever and eventually death. BUT it could have been something else as well, there is no telling for sure without a necropsy, even then you might not find anything...

Was mom a first time mother? That might explain her not letting her lambs nurse, sometimes first time mothers do alright cleaning and birthing, but they dance around and around when lambs try to nurse because they don't understand what they are doing back there (or because they aren't done cleaning/checking lamb out). Or it could have just been that she knew something was wrong with the lambs and/or her.

I'm sorry you had such a rough start to lambing, it'll get better.

Marie
Spot Hollow Farm

--- jspidle1 at yahoo.com wrote:

From: joy <jspidle1 at yahoo.com>
To: "jacob-list at jacobsheep.com" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Subject: [Jacob-list] When things go wrong... they can go very, very wrong......
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 04:09:06 -0700 (PDT)


I am a newbie at lambing so I want to use this as a learning experience.
 
On Friday I returned home from work to a pair of newborn lambs (a ram & a
ewe). The ewe was still a bit wet but cleaned off. Their mom seemed very
attentive licking them and talking to them. I didn't want to interfere so I
watched. The boy was up and about trying to nurse... the ewe still hadn't
gotten to her feet ...... 2 hours had passed so I attempted to at least get
her to nurse a little, mom was having none of it so I decided to milk her
out enough to bottle feed the ewe lamb to at least get some colostrums in
her. I gave her about 4 ozs and continued to watch the mom's interactions
with the lambs. It became apparent she was not allowing the ram lamb to
nurse despite his efforts.... so I milked her a little more and made sure he
had some milk. At the 5 hr mark the ewe lamb still did not have the strength
to get up, the weather was miserable (rain & chilly) The ewe lamb was cold
so I decide to milk mom again and take the little girl in and put her under
a heat lamp. She was eating well but still couldn't stand. A 03:00 I checked
on her again, she still was not able to stand.... the boy was curled up with
his mom doing ok. 
On Saturday when I checked the mom was still not allowing the boy to nurse,
he would just about get latched on and then she would move..... so
frustrating. So I milked her and fed them both several times throughout the
day I was hoping by leaving the boy with her she would get the idea.... she
did not object to being milked just the babies nursing. I keep a close eye
on them throughout the day the girl still unable to stand.... she was
getting stronger at least could make it to her knees just not to stand, at
the 26 hr mark she finally made it to her feet. The boy was still with his
mom but she still would not allow his to nurse. I fed him and kept an eye on
him. The night was chilly and rainy again. I checked him around 22:00 and he
was chilled so I brought him in under the lamp too. At 03:00 when I checked
him he had passed.  
On Sunday the mom seemed a bit depressed / not her normal self. She refused
to eat and just stared at the wall. Her temp was a bit elevated but nothing
real bad (104) but I decided to give her a does o penicillin just to be
safe. At around 18:00 I noticed the mom lying down in the stall and she
appeared to be in labor again. She pushed very hard a few time expelling
allot of poop and then started thrashing and let out a cry and then .....she
stopped breathing her heart was beating and I checked her pupil for reflex
.... (she jumped and scared the crap out of me) she still was not
breathing.... I checked her pupil again and they were fixed and dilated with
no response ......... then her heart stopped.......... I'm in total
disbelief at this point...... What the ____________?????????
So, now the question I need answered from you all that have been doing this
for a while is....... What could I / should I have done differently???????
Help me understand please......................
 
Sorry the post was so long...
Thanks for any help you can give me.
 
joy
 
 
 

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