[Jacob-list] lilac

Linda patchworkfibers at windstream.net
Sat Mar 31 15:58:53 EDT 2012


A correction. I have said that "true" lilacs breed true. Not that
chocolate are the ones that breed true. Both the blues and chocolates
breed true in my experience.

Linda

On 3/31/2012 3:25 PM, Carl Fosbrink wrote:

> I agree with Linda on several points and we have discussed lilacs

> before. I have been experimenting with lilac to lilac and lilac to b&w

> matings for a few years now. I have always had some lilacs in my flock

> from the very beginning. All of my lilac to lilac matings have

> produced lilac lambs. What I refer to as lilac is the blue/gray color

> although some are darker and some lighter shades of that color. There

> seems to be differences of opinion as to what is lilac. I have been

> told there are chocolate lilacs and Linda has been told that what is

> considered chocolate are the ones that breed true. My blue/gray lilacs

> breed true. To me what would be considered a chocolate lilac would be

> a Jacob that has chocolate color on face and legs and a fleece that is

> brown all the way to the skin. I will not say there is no such color,

> but that I have never seen one in person. Maybe we are just dealing

> with a difference in thinking as to what is lilac color. I do know

> that what I call lilac is what some people call chocolate lilac. I

> have seen a lot of lilac Jacobs and they are all what I would call the

> blue/gray lilac color. I have bred several lilacs over the years and

> have gotten a lilac ewe from Carl Fredericks from WI. and lilac ewes

> from Shannon Phifer from OR.to get unrelated lilacs for my

> experiment and those ewes were the same blue/gray color that have been

> born here and that I have seen elsewhere and have bred true when

> mated to my lilacs. I feel strongly that if there is a true chocolate

> lilac that it should be registered as a chocolate instead of a lilac.

> If there is anyone who has a true chocolate lilac out there please

> send me photos of face and legs and fleece. I would love to see it. If

> we are just experiencing a difference in how we interpret the same

> color that is a lot easier to deal with.

>

> *From:* Linda <mailto:patchworkfibers at windstream.net>

> *Sent:* Friday, March 30, 2012 8:56 PM

> *To:* Betty Berlenbach <mailto:lambfarm at tds.net>

> *Cc:* jacob-list at jacobsheep.com <mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

> *Subject:* Re: [Jacob-list] lilac

>

> That's the opposite of what I see in my lilac lambs. The body color at

> birth looks black, but the facial color is what tells me the lamb is

> lilac. Leg markings often appear black, but eventually start to show

> browning. Dr. Sponenberg wrote an article about various modifying

> genes that affect the color, but are not color genes - early graying,

> roaning, tolerance to sun, etc. I wonder if some of these modifying

> genes might account for the difference between chocolate and blue

> lilacs.I would be very interested to hear more about Dr. S's report at

> the AGM.

>

> Sheep that are not a traditional black have been registered as lilac.

> If we accept that lilac is recessive, lilacs bred together should

> always produce lilacs. This has not happened with some sheep

> registered as lilac. Either our definition of lilac or our

> understanding of the genetics of lilacs is flawed.

>

> Linda

>

>

>

> On 3/30/2012 6:46 AM, Betty Berlenbach wrote:

>> I don't have a lot of experience with lilac, but I've had a question

>> asked of me. I know that occasionally, I will have a lamb that looks

>> black, but when it dries off, in the light, it is very dark grey,

>> with that telltale "halo" of lighter color around the eyes and blue

>> eyes. Still, it is not the blue=lilac/light grey, blue eyed color

>> from birth that I've seen. In the dark grey type, the head and leg

>> markings seem to remain black, though the body color is very dark

>> grey. AND, I've heard people talk about chocolate brown lilac. So,

>> is "lilac" another word for "not-black" or what? The guide

>> book/breed standard, unless I"ve missed it, doesn't talk about these

>> variations. I recall Phil Sponenberg, way long ago at a N.J. AGM

>> bring up the thought that there were two jacob blacks, one dominant

>> to the other, both dominant over regular ol' white sheep white. No

>> idea whether that was something others observed and what difference

>> it made or why he thought there were two. So, Fred and others, thoughts?

>>

>>

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>

> --

> Patchwork Farm Jacob Sheep <http://www.patchworkfibers.com>

>

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