[Jacob-list] Fwd: Fw: Emailing: Horak Article, Horak Article 001

[Dan Carpenter]

I'm not sure that there is a clear, concise, universally accepted definition
of "primitive" when it comes to animal breeds-and I am sure that there isn't
such a definition of "breed"-but in my mind those two terms are somewhat
contradictory, as primitive (to me, at least) implies less genetic
homozygosity (did I make a new word?)  and breed implies more genetic
homozygosity.  If my understanding of the terms are correct, it would imply
that (1)primitive breeds should have the capacity to be changed
significantly using the genes they already possess and (2)since those
changes would result from an increase in homozygosity they would erode the
primitiveness of the original breed.

 

The implications of these statements are: (1)it is at least possible that
some of the Jacobs East of the Atlantic could have been "improved" without
crossbreeding and (2)we could be "improving" the Jacobs on our side of the
Atlantic without ever crossbreeding.

 

-Dan

 

 

From: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com
[mailto:jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com] On Behalf Of marguerite van beek
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 11:22 PM
To: jacob-list
Subject: [Jacob-list] Fwd: Fw: Emailing: Horak Article, Horak Article 001

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: marguerite van beek <mvanbeek7 at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Emailing: Horak Article, Horak Article 001
To: CARL FOSBRINK <carlfosbrink at yahoo.com>
Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com



Carl

 

I read your email and the article from Fred.  Just because Ed never saw a
two horn does not mean it is not in the breed which when I saw his movie at
the AGM there were four and two horn jacobs.  How can he state that.  

Fred does state there is really no difference from the Turner's  or
Hescock's flock.  Even thou Hescocks said his was an improved stock.  Which
brings me back to the fact Hescocks and Huntsberger flocks were not deer
like at all.  And there were two horn and four horn in those flocks.  I
believe the Jacob has a lot of differences within itself.  To state that one
is better than the other is a false statement.  They are what they are. 

We as a group have culled what we decided was unacceptable from eye patches,
horn types, etc.  to improve the Jacob breed.  Have we not?

By doing all of the so called improvements (fleece, coloring, leg patches,
horns) why would it not seem possible that size came into play.  

We as breeders breed what we like.  You for instance breed only four horn
jacobs.  I like four and two.  The only way you can have what you call a
primitive Jacob was not to cull at all and I think we have passed that line.


 

Peg

 

 

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:36 PM, CARL FOSBRINK <carlfosbrink at yahoo.com>
wrote:


Peggy,

 

   The attached article by Fred Horak will explain it to you, I hope. I will
also try to explain it in a little different way.

   The earliest Jacobs to come to America were an import to the Chicago Zoo
from the Isle of Skye around 1954. About 1960 Dr. Fell from Indiana bought
the first ones released to the public and in 1967 Bill Reynolds bought some
of these from Dr. Fell. Some of these early imports also went to the
Winnipeg Zoo. Geoff Hatch bought a large number of sheep from Bill Reynolds
and Charles Humes had the early imports as well. These Jacobs were spread
over the country. A large number were sold at the Cape Gerardo sale each
year. Edd Bissell said they were all four horned and had knee and hock spots
and Panda faces, meaning round spots around the eyes and black muzzles. A
lot of them  had freckling. Edd said he never saw a two horned Jacob or one
with a pigmented muzzle or white legs or badger faces until he saw the
Hescock Jacobs. In the 1970s Lasseau and Hescock got Jacobs from Tony
Turner's flock that was quarantined in Canada. A lot of these Jacobs had
pigmented muzzles, white legs, badger faces and little to no freckling. It
is not known if the big difference in these two groups was due to them
originating from a different place or for another reason, but the two groups
were almost immediately crossed because of the small gene pool of the
earliest imports and the need for new blood. Hescock wanted an improved
Jacob for commercial reasons here in the States, but they were not nearly as
commercialized as today's English Jacob. When the American Jacob was started
it was decided by the organization to breed for the primitive type of Jacob
instead of the "improve" English Jacob, but due to the poor quality of some
of the Jacobs of the day, some were polled and many other things, our
Standard allowed for a wide variance in the breed so today you can find
Jacobs in America that represent the Isle of Skye imports and those that
represent the Turner imports and everywhere in between. I personally like
the markings and deer-like conformation of the Isle of Skye imports, but
with a freckle free body like the Turner imports and it is fairly easy to
obtain due to the fact that freckling can be greatly reduced in one
generation or done away with in two generations. Other people like the
pigmented muzzles and white legs. Both are acceptable by the JSBA Standard.
There is a lot more to the story, but I hope this helps you understand why
some Jacobs in America don't have deer-like conformation etc.

 

Carl

 

Carl Fosbrink

www.4hornfarm.com <http://www.4hornfarm.com/> 



--- On Mon, 9/27/10, Carl Fosbrink <fourhornfarm at frontier.com> wrote:


From: Carl Fosbrink <fourhornfarm at frontier.com>
Subject: Emailing: Horak Article, Horak Article 001
To: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com
Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 8:52 PM

 

The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
Horak Article
Horak Article 001

Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent
sending or receiving certain types of file attachments.  Check your e-mail
security settings to determine how attachments are handled. 

 

 

 

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