[Jacob-list] Cotswold- Jacob crosses

[BISCHOW at aol.com]

Most of our crosses have been A) accidental and B) dark--rather than  
white.  I, also,like the resulting fleeces .
 
Louise  
you tell a horse.
you ask a  donkey.
and you negotiate with a mule.  

 
In a message dated 1/5/2010 1:05:42 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com writes:

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Today's Topics:

1.  crossbreeding (hobbyknobfarm)
2. Re: crossbreeding  (gotothewhip at aol.com)
3. Re: crossbreeding (Neal and Louise  Grose)
4. Re: Need any medical help on ram (ARTHUR  PARTRIDGE)
5. Re: crossbreeding (Jaci  Siehl)


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Message:  1
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:34:06 -0500
From: "hobbyknobfarm"  <hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us>
Subject: [Jacob-list] crossbreeding
To:  <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID:  <039123A13FD547559A6FDD694DCC4848 at daron1>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"

Miranda,
My colored cotswold ram crossed  himself with one of my Jacob ewes last 
year and I got 2 cute black with a  little white ram lambs (now wethers) the 
fleece is long with a more open  crimp. I believe I read somewhere (and Neal 
mentioned this) that you get the  black or dark when you cross with a Jacob. 
A friend of mine has a  jacob/cotswold ewe and I always liked the fleece, 
very nice open curls but it  is grey and not black or as dark as mine. I think 
someone on this list, bide a  wee? does the same thing with border 
leceister and Jacob and I remember seeing  their lambs last year and they looked 
just like mine. And they have really  cute little, manageable horns. 
Elizabeth 
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Message:  2
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:57:19 -0500
From:  gotothewhip at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] crossbreeding
To:  jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Message-ID:  <8CC5C47A8AA800C-2BF8-71E0 at webmail-m091.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



This is so curious!  I have  a lady who boards 2 nice ramboullets for 
handspinning with my Jacob flock  (they certainally stick out!) and she inquired 
about using my ram next year...  Other than digging a hole for her ewes to 
stand in, (LOL) the thought is  interesting!  

It is thought provoking  that all of the F1  generation is solid black or 
colored, but is solid, not spotted or varigated?  (or am I misinterpreting 
what is said) and when you say colored, are you  seeing lilacs, browns or?

For those with experience with F1 crosses,  were any ewe lambs from the F1 
used for breeding?  If so, what were the  results of that breeding (and was 
it bred back to F1 or to a purebred?)   Horns, coloring and the other 
aspects?

Jennifer Tucker
Moose Mtn  Ranch





-----Original Message-----
From: hobbyknobfarm  <hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent:  Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:34 am
Subject: [Jacob-list]  crossbreeding


Miranda,
My colored cotswold ram crossed himself  with one of my Jacob ewes last 
year and I got 2 cute black with a little white  ram lambs (now wethers) the 
fleece is long with a more open crimp. I believe I  read somewhere (and Neal 
mentioned this) that you get the black or dark when  you cross with a Jacob. 
A friend of mine has a jacob/cotswold ewe and I always  liked the fleece, 
very nice open curls but it is grey and not black or as dark  as mine. I think 
someone on this list, bide a wee? does the same thing with  border 
leceister and Jacob and I remember seeing their lambs last year and  they looked 
just like mine. And they have really cute little, manageable  horns. 
Elizabeth  

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Message:  3
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:50:24 -0500
From: "Neal and Louise Grose"  <nlgrose at yadtel.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] crossbreeding
To:  <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID:  <3B1AFF12AA2648728E2D050C1FB17446 at HAL2>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"

Jacob Crosses will be black (sometimes with marked  faces) unless there is 
already a piebald gene in the other breed. Such breeds  will include the 
Merino derived breeds such as Dorsett, Coriedale and  Ramboullet. You will also 
get some funky stuff from Navajo, Barbados and  Finns.

By colored, we are saying we expect to see these crosses grey  out more 
quickly. 

Crossing lilac Jacob to other breeds will probably  STILL give you black 
lambs. There may well be more than one type of lilac, but  the ones we have 
are carrying the dominate black gene and this has come  through both in 
crosses to white longwools and moorit Shetland. Shetland is  the most recessive 
allele, and crosses to it are the only way to look at the  influence of one 
set of alelles in the color expression.

Neal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: gotothewhip at aol.com 
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:57  PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] crossbreeding



This is so curious!  I have a lady who boards 2 nice ramboullets for  
handspinning with my Jacob flock (they certainally stick out!) and she  inquired 
about using my ram next year... Other than digging a hole for her  ewes to 
stand in, (LOL) the thought is interesting!  

It is  thought provoking  that all of the F1 generation is solid black or  
colored, but is solid, not spotted or varigated? (or am I misinterpreting 
what  is said) and when you say colored, are you seeing lilacs, browns  or?

For those with experience with F1 crosses, were any ewe  lambs from the F1 
used for breeding?  If so, what were the results of  that breeding (and was 
it bred back to F1 or to a purebred?)  Horns,  coloring and the other 
aspects?

Jennifer Tucker
Moose  Mtn Ranch




-----Original Message-----
From:  hobbyknobfarm <hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us>
To:  jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:34 am
Subject: [Jacob-list] crossbreeding


Miranda,
My  colored cotswold ram crossed himself with one of my Jacob ewes last 
year and I  got 2 cute black with a little white ram lambs (now wethers) the 
fleece is  long with a more open crimp. I believe I read somewhere (and Neal 
mentioned  this) that you get the black or dark when you cross with a Jacob. 
A friend of  mine has a jacob/cotswold ewe and I always liked the fleece, 
very nice open  curls but it is grey and not black or as dark as mine. I think 
someone on this  list, bide a wee? does the same thing with border 
leceister and Jacob and I  remember seeing their lambs last year and they looked 
just like mine. And they  have really cute little, manageable horns. 
Elizabeth  
_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing  list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &  Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


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Message:  4
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:41:35 -0800
From: "ARTHUR PARTRIDGE"  <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Need any medical  help on ram
To: "jacob-list"  <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID:  <410-22010125194135500 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=US-ASCII


>The only thing I would add is to be sure to turn  him to help prevent 

>pneumonia--ie don't let him lay on one side more  than a few hours.

>Louise 

========
Yes, it is important to get  them up or at least moved around often.  Linda
mentioned some ways to  help them up.  My friend who raises Icelandics uses
a sling hooked on  a tractor.  They drive the tractor up to the sheep and
hook the sling  on the front part of the tractor, or maybe they back it up
and use  something on the back.  They put the sling around the belly of  the
sheep and then use the tractor to slooooowly lift the sheep to its  feet.  I
haven't seen it done, but I assume they don't lift the animal  off the
ground, just enough to help it on its feet.  Sometimes it  works, sometimes
the sheep is too far gone and has to be put down.  I  don't know how long
they keep the animal up, maybe a few minutes at first  and then longer times
later. 

Cathy
Moscow,  Idaho




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Message:  5
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:59:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Jaci Siehl  <sugarpinejacobs at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list]  crossbreeding
To: JacobList  <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID:  <118434.31841.qm at web113815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Please someone let me know if I am  correct on this or not....... I think 
that the reason we get black (or very  dark) F1 offspring is because a Jacob 
is really a black sheep with white  spots........not just because?black is 
generally a dominate  color.

Gary, am I correct in my thinking?

Jaci  Siehl
Sugarpine Jacobs
530-538-9474



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