[Jacob-list] loupy

[Linda]

Hi Betty,

Yes, a stranger is another story. Sheep do recognize their shepherds. 
None of mine come running up to have halters put on, either. It's just 
that when I do catch them they will stand still for me. When I sheared 
them myself, I would do it with them tied to the fence. They soon 
learned to stand still when tied.

Betty Berlenbach wrote:

> Hi, Linda,

>  

> I was not criticizing halter training or showing; I do, however, think 

> that I would not want a sheep who would not object when a total 

> stranger (new owner) put a halter on it!  My sheep (some of them) 

> might well allow me to put a halter on them, though they do not 

> cherish my LEADING them on a halter.  I have done so on occasion when 

> I have a young lamb, too heavy for me to pick up and carry 1000 feet 

> from the back pasture to the front, for example.  Then, I WILL put a 

> halter on them, to which they don't object, until I start to pull it, 

> at which point,they are most assuredly loupy and will lie down to 

> object to such treatment.  Consequently, I do it as little as 

> possible.  Adaptability is not the sign of a dumb sheep!  THe sign of 

> a dumb sheep (for me) is no objection to either halters being put on 

> them, OR at being led about by one. 

>  

> I have no problem with anyone showing sheep, so long as (and I have 

> found this the case with ALL jacob breeders who show whom I have 

> encountered) they raise their sheep to jacob standards and not to 

> please judges who are totally unfamiliar with jacobs and want BIG, 

> docile, glazed eyed, obedient to a fault, fat sheep.  I had a breeder 

> once bragging that her jacob ewe had an udder like a holstein, proud 

> of it, and wanting to pass on that trait.  I  didn't buy any of her 

> sheep! 

>  

> Who was it, some store, which advertised, "An educated consumer is our 

> best customer." ...I try to educate people who are interested in 

> jacobs, and request strongly that they come to my farm and sit out in 

> the field for at least an hour with these sheep before deciding for 

> sure, after sitting with me and hearing about these cheeky, 

> independent, smart, interesting, challenging, and delightful 

> sheep...I've had lots of other breeds, and there is plainly NO 

> comparison...

>

>     ----- Original Message -----

>     *From:* Linda <mailto:patchworkfibers at windstream.net>

>     *To:* Betty Berlenbach <mailto:lambfarm at sover.net>

>     *Cc:* jacob-list at jacobsheep.com <mailto:jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

>     *Sent:* Monday, November 23, 2009 7:25 AM

>     *Subject:* Re: [Jacob-list] loupy

>

>     I'm not sure I'd want to keep a sheep, ram, ewe, or wether, that

>     continually felt it needed to defend itself against me. Note that

>     I said "continually". I fully expect my ewes to be protective of

>     their new lambs. If I go in with my breeding groups and start

>     chasing the ewes around, I should not be surprised if the ram

>     starts chasing ME around. While I doubt that even my largest ram

>     could fight off a pack of coyotes, I do expect the sheep to chase

>     Dave's dog out of the pasture.

>     Wild is not the same as primitive. Friendly and halter broken is

>     not the same as improved.

>     Thinking beyond the flock view to the breed view, you have to

>     accept that some people do enjoy showing. If this is a breed that

>     can't be halter broken and never becomes docile enough to be

>     shown, those people are going to get another breed. In a wild

>     flock, is the ram that kills or disables the other rams the most

>     primitive? I don't know the answer to that - interested in hearing

>     opinions.

>     The thing about Jacobs, imho, is that they are adaptable and that

>     means that they are suitable for different management techniques

>     and husbandry practices.

>     I love the individual personalities of my flock and that does

>     include the ones that are "dumb" enough to be halter broken as

>     well as the ones that are too "loupy".

>

>     *smiles*

>     Linda

>

>     Betty Berlenbach wrote:

>>     Geez, I think if I were being haltered and pulled somewhere

>>     strange by strangers, I'd jump and fight as well, and then, (as

>>     we are told to do if attacked by a bear) I'd fall flat and play

>>     dead,hoping the idiot would go away.  I'd be complimented if

>>     someone said one of my sheep was smart enough to defend herself

>>     and not take insults from people.  (Sheep never haltered would, I

>>     assume, consider it an insult to tie them up and pull away, or

>>     try to.)  It just means you had a very smart sheep you sold. I

>>     would have said thank you to the woman when she gave me that

>>     compliment.  Then, explained that one of my goals was to have

>>     sheep who could and would defend themselves, could think for

>>     themselves, and not be run of the mill dumb and docile and

>>     defenseless, as most standardized breeds appear to me to be. 

>>     However, I would certainly have explained to her on the phone or

>>     at first meeting that these are not your run of the mill sheep,

>>     and if she wanted dumb, docile, helpless sheep, she sure didn't

>>     want a jacob!  They could perhaps be taught to be friendly, and

>>     walk on halters, some of them, anyway, especially if taught at an

>>     early age, but by and large, these sheep had dignity and

>>     independence, one reason I raise them.  I don't expect them to be

>>     slaves to my whims and give up their dignity and self respect! 

>>     (I do expect them to come when I rattle the grain pail, so I can

>>     get them from here to there without difficulty.  But that is

>>     learned behaviour, and wasn't forced on them. Halters are just

>>     too much like tying them up for me to do it.  Naturally, it

>>     follows that I don't show sheep!)  Some of my sheep will come

>>     when called, if they aren't busy doing something they'd rather

>>     do, and will submit to being petted and scratched, and some would

>>     sooner die than have a conversation with a mere human!  I love

>>     their attitudes!  Reminds me that I needn't feel so superior, as

>>     many humans do; that animals have rights and dignity and are to

>>     be respected!

>>      Betty, in Vermont,who now has a blog, thanks to help from Walter

>>     and Linda.  See Betty's blog at http://sheepwoman.wordpress.com.

>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

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>>       

>

>     -- 

>     Patchwork Farm Jacob Sheep <http://www.patchworkfibers.com>

>

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