[Jacob-list] loupy

[Betty Berlenbach]

Hi, Linda,

I was not criticizing halter training or showing; I do, however, think that I would not want a sheep who would not object when a total stranger (new owner) put a halter on it!  My sheep (some of them) might well allow me to put a halter on them, though they do not cherish my LEADING them on a halter.  I have done so on occasion when I have a young lamb, too heavy for me to pick up and carry 1000 feet from the back pasture to the front, for example.  Then, I WILL put a halter on them, to which they don't object, until I start to pull it, at which point,they are most assuredly loupy and will lie down to object to such treatment.  Consequently, I do it as little as possible.  Adaptability is not the sign of a dumb sheep!  THe sign of a dumb sheep (for me) is no objection to either halters being put on them, OR at being led about by one.  

I have no problem with anyone showing sheep, so long as (and I have found this the case with ALL jacob breeders who show whom I have encountered) they raise their sheep to jacob standards and not to please judges who are totally unfamiliar with jacobs and want BIG, docile, glazed eyed, obedient to a fault, fat sheep.  I had a breeder once bragging that her jacob ewe had an udder like a holstein, proud of it, and wanting to pass on that trait.  I  didn't buy any of her sheep!  

Who was it, some store, which advertised, "An educated consumer is our best customer." ...I try to educate people who are interested in jacobs, and request strongly that they come to my farm and sit out in the field for at least an hour with these sheep before deciding for sure, after sitting with me and hearing about these cheeky, independent, smart, interesting, challenging, and delightful sheep...I've had lots of other breeds, and there is plainly NO comparison...
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda 
  To: Betty Berlenbach 
  Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] loupy


  I'm not sure I'd want to keep a sheep, ram, ewe, or wether, that continually felt it needed to defend itself against me. Note that I said "continually". I fully expect my ewes to be protective of their new lambs. If I go in with my breeding groups and start chasing the ewes around, I should not be surprised if the ram starts chasing ME around. While I doubt that even my largest ram could fight off a pack of coyotes, I do expect the sheep to chase Dave's dog out of the pasture.
  Wild is not the same as primitive. Friendly and halter broken is not the same as improved. 
  Thinking beyond the flock view to the breed view, you have to accept that some people do enjoy showing. If this is a breed that can't be halter broken and never becomes docile enough to be shown, those people are going to get another breed. In a wild flock, is the ram that kills or disables the other rams the most primitive? I don't know the answer to that - interested in hearing opinions.
  The thing about Jacobs, imho, is that they are adaptable and that means that they are suitable for different management techniques and husbandry practices. 
  I love the individual personalities of my flock and that does include the ones that are "dumb" enough to be halter broken as well as the ones that are too "loupy".

  *smiles*
  Linda

  Betty Berlenbach wrote: 
    Geez, I think if I were being haltered and pulled somewhere strange by strangers, I'd jump and fight as well, and then, (as we are told to do if attacked by a bear) I'd fall flat and play dead,hoping the idiot would go away.  I'd be complimented if someone said one of my sheep was smart enough to defend herself and not take insults from people.  (Sheep never haltered would, I assume, consider it an insult to tie them up and pull away, or try to.)  It just means you had a very smart sheep you sold. I would have said thank you to the woman when she gave me that compliment.  Then, explained that one of my goals was to have sheep who could and would defend themselves, could think for themselves, and not be run of the mill dumb and docile and defenseless, as most standardized breeds appear to me to be.  However, I would certainly have explained to her on the phone or at first meeting that these are not your run of the mill sheep, and if she wanted dumb, docile, helpless sheep, she sure didn't want a jacob!  They could perhaps be taught to be friendly, and walk on halters, some of them, anyway, especially if taught at an early age, but by and large, these sheep had dignity and independence, one reason I raise them.  I don't expect them to be slaves to my whims and give up their dignity and self respect!  (I do expect them to come when I rattle the grain pail, so I can get them from here to there without difficulty.  But that is learned behaviour, and wasn't forced on them. Halters are just too much like tying them up for me to do it.  Naturally, it follows that I don't show sheep!)  Some of my sheep will come when called, if they aren't busy doing something they'd rather do, and will submit to being petted and scratched, and some would sooner die than have a conversation with a mere human!  I love their attitudes!  Reminds me that I needn't feel so superior, as many humans do; that animals have rights and dignity and are to be respected!
     Betty, in Vermont,who now has a blog, thanks to help from Walter and Linda.  See Betty's blog at http://sheepwoman.wordpress.com.
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