[Jacob-list] primitive and loupy.
Chris and Tina Griffin
griffin45 at live.com
Mon Nov 23 09:15:01 EST 2009
I am having a hard time finding the words to address these last posts about primitive and loupy. I am not the well seasoned shepherd, but comparing Jacobs to the rest of the farm, this is what I see. The Jacobs know who I am and what I am bringing to them. The dominant ram will (at his earliest convienience) knock me on my butt during rut or breeding season. They require shearing and I have no idea why our shearer does Jacobs for the same price that he does the normal stupid sheep. When the sheep are freshly sheared they get a CD & T. In early spring they get wormed if needed (If you know that in the wild a flock would be decimated by a particular weather pattern, I see no reason to let that effect affect my sheep). I don't have to do anything for these animals as compared to my goats and chickens. They forage and eat and produce meat, wool and lambs with little intervention from me. How much more proof of primative do we need? (The last month here on the Jacobs list has been extraordinarily educational!) As a beginning Homesteader, Jacob sheep are one of our best investments.
Have a wonderfully blessed day,
Chris and Tina
Griffin's Ark griffinsark at griffinsark.com
www.griffinsark.com
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Subject: Jacob-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28
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Today's Topics:
1. jacob wethers in WNC (hobbyknobfarm)
2. Re: Primitive characteristics (ARTHUR PARTRIDGE)
3. Re: Primitive characteristics (fourhornfarm)
4. loupy (Betty Berlenbach)
5. Re: loupy (Linda)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:33:32 -0500
From: "hobbyknobfarm" <hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us>
Subject: [Jacob-list] jacob wethers in WNC
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <FFE0C2F5878F455A9BAEA0615B0A77CE at daron1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I will be taking back 3 pet Jacob wethers, 2 and 3 years of age, due to a family tragedy and am hoping maybe someone here in the southeast might know someone who might want these for fiber/pet/companion. I am happy to give them away except for possible transportation costs. Feel free to give them my email or phone which you can find on my website (www.hobbyknobfarm.com) I had gotten my numbers down for the winter and really did not want to do this but just felt it was the right thing to do to help this person.
Elizabeth
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:14:06 -0800
From: "ARTHUR PARTRIDGE" <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Primitive characteristics
To: "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <410-22009111232146703 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
--Previous Message--
>>I don't think anyone wants a "nutso" Jacob. I have never had one myself.
Mine all seem to be pretty smart, but if I ever get a nutso I will
certainly cull it from the flock.
============
How about Jacob sheep being called "loupy"? That is what one of my
yearling ewes was called last week by a new owner. The sheep jumped,
tugged, and then laid down flat when the lady tried to move her with a
halter and lead. I thought :"loupy" meant "nutso" so naturally, I was
offended; however, the word "loup" in the dictionary means "to jump and
leap about" which is exactly what the ewe was doing. I explained that the
Jacob sheep are primitive sheep, but she wants tame, friendly sheep.
Hmmm. In trying to send the above, my spell checker came up with the word
"loopy" which means "eccentric, befuddled or confused; esp. due to
intoxication", so I guess I am offended after all.
Cathy
Moscow, Idaho
Home of the loupy, but not loopy, sheep
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:02:18 -0500
From: "fourhornfarm" <fourhornfarm at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Primitive characteristics
To: <aztreaz at earthlink.net>, "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <C524CFC23D4D4AD2860B827A02CBD935 at DollyLama>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
There's no reason to be offended. She just didn't understand that American
Jacob sheep are a primitive breed. What she needs is a female or castrated
male bottle lamb.
----- Original Message -----
From: "ARTHUR PARTRIDGE" <aztreaz at earthlink.net>
To: "jacob-list" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Primitive characteristics
> --Previous Message--
>>>I don't think anyone wants a "nutso" Jacob. I have never had one myself.
> Mine all seem to be pretty smart, but if I ever get a nutso I will
> certainly cull it from the flock.
> ============
> How about Jacob sheep being called "loupy"? That is what one of my
> yearling ewes was called last week by a new owner. The sheep jumped,
> tugged, and then laid down flat when the lady tried to move her with a
> halter and lead. I thought :"loupy" meant "nutso" so naturally, I was
> offended; however, the word "loup" in the dictionary means "to jump and
> leap about" which is exactly what the ewe was doing. I explained that the
> Jacob sheep are primitive sheep, but she wants tame, friendly sheep.
>
> Hmmm. In trying to send the above, my spell checker came up with the word
> "loopy" which means "eccentric, befuddled or confused; esp. due to
> intoxication", so I guess I am offended after all.
>
> Cathy
> Moscow, Idaho
> Home of the loupy, but not loopy, sheep
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:22:29 -0500
From: "Betty Berlenbach" <lambfarm at sover.net>
Subject: [Jacob-list] loupy
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <002801ca6c2f$496ddd40$5da072d8 at USER5AFE0954BF>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Geez, I think if I were being haltered and pulled somewhere strange by strangers, I'd jump and fight as well, and then, (as we are told to do if attacked by a bear) I'd fall flat and play dead,hoping the idiot would go away. I'd be complimented if someone said one of my sheep was smart enough to defend herself and not take insults from people. (Sheep never haltered would, I assume, consider it an insult to tie them up and pull away, or try to.) It just means you had a very smart sheep you sold. I would have said thank you to the woman when she gave me that compliment. Then, explained that one of my goals was to have sheep who could and would defend themselves, could think for themselves, and not be run of the mill dumb and docile and defenseless, as most standardized breeds appear to me to be. However, I would certainly have explained to her on the phone or at first meeting that these are not your run of the mill sheep, and if she wanted dumb, docile, helpless sheep, she
sure didn't want a jacob! They could perhaps be taught to be friendly, and walk on halters, some of them, anyway, especially if taught at an early age, but by and large, these sheep had dignity and independence, one reason I raise them. I don't expect them to be slaves to my whims and give up their dignity and self respect! (I do expect them to come when I rattle the grain pail, so I can get them from here to there without difficulty. But that is learned behaviour, and wasn't forced on them. Halters are just too much like tying them up for me to do it. Naturally, it follows that I don't show sheep!) Some of my sheep will come when called, if they aren't busy doing something they'd rather do, and will submit to being petted and scratched, and some would sooner die than have a conversation with a mere human! I love their attitudes! Reminds me that I needn't feel so superior, as many humans do; that animals have rights and dignity and are to be respected!
Betty, in Vermont,who now has a blog, thanks to help from Walter and Linda. See Betty's blog at http://sheepwoman.wordpress.com.
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 07:25:37 -0500
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at windstream.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] loupy
To: Betty Berlenbach <lambfarm at sover.net>
Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Message-ID: <4B0A7F41.9000906 at windstream.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
I'm not sure I'd want to keep a sheep, ram, ewe, or wether, that
continually felt it needed to defend itself against me. Note that I said
"continually". I fully expect my ewes to be protective of their new
lambs. If I go in with my breeding groups and start chasing the ewes
around, I should not be surprised if the ram starts chasing ME around.
While I doubt that even my largest ram could fight off a pack of
coyotes, I do expect the sheep to chase Dave's dog out of the pasture.
Wild is not the same as primitive. Friendly and halter broken is not the
same as improved.
Thinking beyond the flock view to the breed view, you have to accept
that some people do enjoy showing. If this is a breed that can't be
halter broken and never becomes docile enough to be shown, those people
are going to get another breed. In a wild flock, is the ram that kills
or disables the other rams the most primitive? I don't know the answer
to that - interested in hearing opinions.
The thing about Jacobs, imho, is that they are adaptable and that means
that they are suitable for different management techniques and husbandry
practices.
I love the individual personalities of my flock and that does include
the ones that are "dumb" enough to be halter broken as well as the ones
that are too "loupy".
*smiles*
Linda
Betty Berlenbach wrote:
> Geez, I think if I were being haltered and pulled somewhere strange by
> strangers, I'd jump and fight as well, and then, (as we are told to do
> if attacked by a bear) I'd fall flat and play dead,hoping the idiot
> would go away. I'd be complimented if someone said one of my sheep
> was smart enough to defend herself and not take insults from people.
> (Sheep never haltered would, I assume, consider it an insult to tie
> them up and pull away, or try to.) It just means you had a very smart
> sheep you sold. I would have said thank you to the woman when she gave
> me that compliment. Then, explained that one of my goals was to have
> sheep who could and would defend themselves, could think for
> themselves, and not be run of the mill dumb and docile and
> defenseless, as most standardized breeds appear to me to be. However,
> I would certainly have explained to her on the phone or at first
> meeting that these are not your run of the mill sheep, and if she
> wanted dumb, docile, helpless sheep, she sure didn't want a jacob!
> They could perhaps be taught to be friendly, and walk on halters, some
> of them, anyway, especially if taught at an early age, but by and
> large, these sheep had dignity and independence, one reason I raise
> them. I don't expect them to be slaves to my whims and give up their
> dignity and self respect! (I do expect them to come when I rattle the
> grain pail, so I can get them from here to there without difficulty.
> But that is learned behaviour, and wasn't forced on them. Halters are
> just too much like tying them up for me to do it. Naturally, it
> follows that I don't show sheep!) Some of my sheep will come when
> called, if they aren't busy doing something they'd rather do, and will
> submit to being petted and scratched, and some would sooner die than
> have a conversation with a mere human! I love their attitudes!
> Reminds me that I needn't feel so superior, as many humans do; that
> animals have rights and dignity and are to be respected!
> Betty, in Vermont,who now has a blog, thanks to help from Walter and
> Linda. See Betty's blog at http://sheepwoman.wordpress.com.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
--
Patchwork Farm Jacob Sheep <http://www.patchworkfibers.com>
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