[Jacob-list] Great Information Re:Primitive

[Steve and Trish Barrows]

These are such cool sheep!  We have see our Jacobs on the side hill approach 
brush from the upslope side, walk up the brush, hook it with their horns and 
step down, pulling the branches down and stand there munching wth the 
branches still caught in their horns.  It is a joy to have "primitive" 
sheep!  Steve Barrows, Amazing Grace Farm

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris and Tina Griffin" <griffin45 at live.com>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 5:24 PM
Subject: [Jacob-list] Great Information Re:Primitive



> The knowledge of this group continues to astound me.  I would have quoted 

> the literal Hebrew had I been home and I am so glad that multiple versions 

> were quoted since my original posting.  Now Linda had to add some new 

> information that really got my juices flowing.  A sheep browsing on its 

> hind legs, that would be interesting to see.  Of all the primitive traits 

> that Linda brought up, our sheep exhibit all but the browsing.  I wonder 

> if I can train them?!?

>

> Chris

> www.griffinsark.com

>

> --------------------------------------------------

> From: <jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com>

> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:15 PM

> To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

> Subject: Jacob-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 13

>

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>> Today's Topics:

>>

>>   1. Re: Primitive and history (Jacobflock at aol.com)

>>   2. primitive vs 'back in the old days' (Linda)

>>   3. [Fwd:  primitive vs 'back in the old days'] (Linda)

>>   4. Re: Jacob makes it as a cover model! (Linda)

>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 1

>> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:13:47 EST

>> From: Jacobflock at aol.com

>> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Primitive and history

>> To: nlgrose at yadtel.net

>> Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com

>> Message-ID: <d4c.50a741ce.382cad3b at aol.com>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>

>> I have found the article in the Encyclopedia Judaica (Biology, pp

>> 1024-1028) to be of interest in telling the story of Jacob from the 

>> Hebrew text.

>> One point the Rabbis and J Feliks (article writers) makes is  that the

>> Christian Bible story in English doesn't present the story as it should 

>> be

>> understood.  According to the European Christian interpretation of  the 

>> story, the

>> rods that Jacob peeled for white stripes "set over against the  flocks"

>> (Jacob's flock) led to the birth of "spotted" sheep.   This is not a 

>> proper

>> understanding of the Hebrew story.

>>

>> Jacob says to Laban, "I will pass through your flock, remove every 

>> speckled

>> and spotted one, and every dark one among the sheep, and the spotted and

>> speckled among the goats; and of such will be my hire."  The population 

>> of

>> sheep, 75% are white wooled, 25% brown spotted wool and about 75% of the

>> goats are black, 25% of the goats have white or brown spots.  White sheep 

>> and

>> black goats are "monochrome", spotted sheep and goats are "spotted".

>> Jacob suggested that Laban separate from the monochrome sheep all the 

>> spotted

>> ones and take them for himself and he, Jacob, would tend only the 

>> monochrome

>> ones.  As his pay, ("and of such shall be my hire") he would keep all the

>> spotted born of the monochrome sheep and goats.

>>

>> Laban likes the idea, assuming the monochrome sheep would not produce 

>> many

>> if any spotted sheep and Laban takes the spotted sheep and sends them off

>> with  his sons into the next county.  Jacob, the grifter and con man, who

>> just  took high school sheep tending for six years, remembers ... 

>> phenotype and

>> genotype are different  ...  they were all monochrome but they were  1/3

>> homozygotes and 2/3 heterozygotes for spots. Jacob had to breed the

>> heterozygotes among themselves.

>>

>> Then the dream. "Lift up your eyes and see all the he-goats which leap 

>> upon

>> the flock are streaked, speckled and grizzled".  The heterozygotes had

>> excessive potency (hybrid vigor heterosis); the "spotted" carriers 

>> conceived

>> earlier than the homozygotes.  The "stronger" are the mekusharot, the

>> "feebler" the atufim. Jacob laid the peeled rods before the mekusharot 

>> that  they

>> might conceive, but not when the flock were atufim, i.e, not before those

>> that would conceive later.  The atufim were Labans.

>>

>> The peeled rods?  Jacob conned Laban by using the "superstitious" ag

>> technique of the time ... breeding done in a certain environment or 

>> under

>> certain signs resulted in god/bad offspring.

>>

>> The next story ... Rachel gets the mandrakes for fertility and a son.

>> Whoops, Leah has the child.  Those superstitions don't seem to  work, 

>> Yaweh has

>> a plan that will work.

>>

>> I asked a Kurdish friend about the peeled stakes; some shepherds still 

>> use

>> them today.

>>

>> Fred Horak

>>

>>

>>

>> In a message dated 11/9/2009 4:04:32 A.M. Central Standard Time,

>> nlgrose at yadtel.net writes:

>>

>> "God's Secretaries" * did a pretty  good job with the Hebrew Bible,

>> actually. Most of the problems  with the King James Version came because 

>> they had a

>> less accurate  copy of the Greek New Testament to work with. Here is the

>> verse in  question in the Hebrew Bible in English (

>> _http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0130.htm_ 

>> (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0130.htm)  ).  I'll

>> let Jews translate their own  scripture.

>>

>>

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>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 2

>> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:16:26 -0500

>> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at windstream.net>

>> Subject: [Jacob-list] primitive vs 'back in the old days'

>> To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

>> Message-ID: <4AFB53DA.5000000 at windstream.net>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>>

>> The discussion on primitive characteristics has been very interesting -

>> and it was fun to go back to the archives and see what we all said about

>> it in 2002.

>> The original post from FarmGirl was in reference to what a primitive

>> sheep looks like.

>>> Awhile back there was a discussion on the list about

>>> primative traits of Jacob sheep. The following traits

>>> were listed: udder close to body, ease of lambing,

>>> track narrowly, slender legs, presence or alertness,

>>> deer shaped body, shedding of belly and sometimes neck

>>> wool, standing on rear legs to browse, good mothers,

>>> sloping croup, triangular shaped head. From the recent

>>> discussion on the list it appears  we could add

>>> jumping and pronking ability and down type fleece to

>>> the list also.

>>>

>>

>> -- 

>> Patchwork Farm Jacob Sheep <http://www.patchworkfibers.com>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 3

>> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:19:00 -0500

>> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at windstream.net>

>> Subject: [Jacob-list] [Fwd:  primitive vs 'back in the old days']

>> To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

>> Message-ID: <4AFB5474.9060008 at windstream.net>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>>

>> Hit send when I meant to hit save... more later

>>

>> -------- Original Message --------

>> Subject: [Jacob-list] primitive vs 'back in the old days'

>> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:16:26 -0500

>> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at windstream.net>

>> To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

>>

>>

>>

>> The discussion on primitive characteristics has been very interesting -

>> and it was fun to go back to the archives and see what we all said about

>> it in 2002.

>> The original post from FarmGirl was in reference to what a primitive

>> sheep looks like.

>>> Awhile back there was a discussion on the list about

>>> primative traits of Jacob sheep. The following traits

>>> were listed: udder close to body, ease of lambing,

>>> track narrowly, slender legs, presence or alertness,

>>> deer shaped body, shedding of belly and sometimes neck

>>> wool, standing on rear legs to browse, good mothers,

>>> sloping croup, triangular shaped head. From the recent

>>> discussion on the list it appears  we could add

>>> jumping and pronking ability and down type fleece to

>>> the list also.

>>>

>>

>> -- 

>> Patchwork Farm Jacob Sheep <http://www.patchworkfibers.com>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks

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>>

>>

>> -- 

>> Patchwork Farm Jacob Sheep <http://www.patchworkfibers.com>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------

>>

>> Message: 4

>> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:03:36 -0500

>> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at windstream.net>

>> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Jacob makes it as a cover model!

>> To: gotothewhip at aol.com

>> Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com

>> Message-ID: <4AFB5EE8.9060908 at windstream.net>

>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

>>

>> That's great - wonder how many people will wonder what kind of "goat"

>> Turbo is :-)

>>

>> gotothewhip at aol.com wrote:

>>> Very excited to see that onr of my rams is featured on their Ads for

>>> Sopris sheep halters... I am a BIG fam of their products, and am

>>> tickled that Turbo is their Cover Boy! They took this photo at Estes

>>> Park Wool Market

>>>

>>> http://www.soprissheep.com/sheep.html

>>>

>>>

>>> Jennifer Tucker

>>> Moose Mtn Ranch

>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks

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>>

>> -- 

>> Patchwork Farm Jacob Sheep <http://www.patchworkfibers.com>

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>> End of Jacob-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 13

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