[Jacob-list] Who and Where are the Show Flocks???????

[Linda]

I would really love to see more Jacob classes at shows.  And more judges educated in the Jacob standard.  It's great that so many breeders are getting our breed out there for the public to see. I hear showmen say "it was an open class and my Jacob didn't get looked at because he was small". Ok, I get that - judge is using criteria that doesn't fit our breed. BUT - when someone wins in an open class - is it because the sheep meets the criteria for a Jacob or because he is more like a commercial breed?  We don't want to lose the sloping rump of a Jacob (or any of the other obviously non-commercial physical characteristics) to win at shows.  Instead of changing the breed to win, let's educate the judges! And do ask if it would be possible to hold Jacob classes at shows that don't currently have separate classes. 

Jennifer - show or not, we ALL want a ram (and ewes) that produces a high percentage of lambs that meet the registration standard *smile* 

Linda
 
www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn


> Jennifer, I am not upset and sorry if I sounded that way.  That was

> one of the reasons I was hesitant to respond.  I think showing

> Jacobs (and other rare breeds) is quite different from showing

> commercial breeds.   There are a good number of Jacob breeders who

> are not in favor of showing Jacobs for fear it will change the

> breed.  And with good reason, considering what has happened to some

> of the other breeds.   Sounds like you are trying to keep your

> sheep within the breed standard.  Glad to hear of your enthusiasm.

> Royal 

>> ----- Original Message -----

>> From: gotothewhip at aol.com

>> To: runzicker at verizon.net ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com Sent:

>> Sunday, March 09, 2008 4:29 PM

>> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Who and Where are the Show Flocks???????

>>

>>

>> WOW.. I guess I didn't understand the negative connotation of a

>> show flock!  This is really interesting to see the insight.  I

>> cant imagine breeding solely for the show ring.. But I do, at

>> least at this point, want to breed animals that are  show

>> quality... Meaning (to me at least) that they meet the Jacob

>> standards as outlined for registry.... This is, to me, my minimum

>> standard!  I'm pretty new at Jacobs.. and have a lot of other

>> livestock breeding influences.. But I guess where I am going with

>> this....   We are shopping for a proven ram.. one that produces a

>> high percentage of lambs that meet the registration

>> qualifications.  One that produces conformationally correct

>> offspring (not extreme bone, fleeces.. But more level tops,

>> straighter legs..animals that will not have issues in their life

>> due to how they are made)  with correct horns and markings. 

>>

>> Our flock was widely shown prior to our purchase, and does

>> indeed, carry MANY FF and A animals... My biggest concern is

>> finding fresh genetics of the breed, that nick well with my ewes!

>> I wish my website was up and functioning, so I could give you an

>> idea of what we have... and I am certainally not wanting to go to

>> any extreme with this... But, Honestly, id prefer to find animals

>> from a background of correctness....I understand, that with the

>> primitive background of the breed, so much is a roll of the

>> dice... and I do LOVE that aspect.. But I also, as a newbie to

>> the breed, would prefer to spend my money on an flock sire, who

>> is known to produce quality animals...

>>

>> We really have had fun showing our sheep.. Granted, it is often

>> against other breeds that are either larger framed or finer

>> fleeced.... But have been pretty excited about continuing showing

>> in the future.  I feel like we act as breed ambassadors, and

>> encourage folks to look at them on a different level!   

>>

>> I hope I didnt upset anyone with my use of the show flock idea..

>> And I think maybe a big part of that is seeing what some breed

>> assn.'s have done to their breed in the name of winning.. and

>> that is not at all what I have in mind!

>>

>>

>> Jennifer Tucker

>> Moose Mtn Ranch

>> Bennett, CO

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: R. Unzicker

>> To: Linda ; Meg Steensland

>> ; Gotothewhip at aol.com; jacob-

>> list at jacobsheep.com

>> Sent: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 1:45 pm

>> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Who and Where are the Show Flocks???????

>>

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>> 5e51eb1b8c8e P { DISPLAY: block; MARGIN: 0in }  Thanks, Linda

>> for putting into words what I have been wanting to say.  I have

>> been intending to reply to the "show flock" issue but not sure

>> what to say.  For me personally, the term "show flock" is not a

>> positive one.  It reminds me of sheep that are bred soley to win

>> in the showring regardless of how well they conform to the breed

>> standard or how well they sire or deliver and raise healthy lambs.

>>

>>  True, we do show our sheep.   But our purpose is to promote the

>> breed, to make people aware of this rare breed.   Because Jacobs

>> are a rare breed, I feel strongly it is important to maintian as

>> much diversity in our flocks.  When looking at our flock list,

>> one can usually find at least a dozen different flock prefixes.  

>> When possible, I am happy to purcahse sheep from some of the

>> earliest lines in the US.   In our flock, so far, there are

>> always FF and A generation sheep as we have tried to bring some

>> of the earlier importations back into the registry.   Some of

>> these sheep would never win in a show ring but they are some of

>> my favorite sheep. 

>>

>> I try to rasie Jacobs that fall well within the breed standard.  

>> Perhaps one of the reasons I have many sheep in our flock bred by

>> other Jacob breeders is that it reassures me my Jacobs do fit the

>> breed standard.  That, plus I have an admitted weakness for

>> passing up a beautiful Jacob!  :-)   A down side to continually

>> adding new lines to our flock is that it can easily become a

>> melting pot of Jacobs.    Not necessairly  a bad thing but

>> eventually there would be less distinct lines left.  I try to use

>> several rams so that I do not use the same ram on all the various

>> lines in an effort to keep some genetic distance.  As I look at

>> the various sheep we have shown, the ones the judges felt best do

>> represent a wide cross section of many Jacob breeders.   So, you

>> breed them, I show them, and in doing so, I promote your sheep

>> and  mine. 

>> Sorry if I have gotten off the subject but it seemed important at

>> the time.  :-) Royal  ----- Original Message -----

>>

>>> From: Linda

>>> To: Meg Steensland ; Gotothewhip at aol.com ; jacob-

>>> list at jacobsheep.com Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:05 PM

>>> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Who and Where are the Show

>>> Flocks???????

>>>

>>>

>>> I don't think that all the people that show (and win) at MSWF

>>> would consider their flocks as "show flocks".  Maybe I'm

>>> putting too much emphasis on the term "show flock".  These

>>> breeders sure do raise some nice show sheep, but are not

>>> breeding sheep solely to please the judges such as breeding for

>>> larger, heavier boned sheep.  It's just my outlook, I guess,

>>> but I don't consider the term "show flock" to be complimentary.

>>> We are all too aware of Juliet's warning about the fate of

>>> Jacobs in the UK - one small step at a time.

>>> Royal sure wins alot at MSWF. If you're looking for top show

>>> stock, he'd be a good one to contact. I consider Royal's flock

>>> an excellent example of a diverse flock that raises some

>>> excellent show sheep in addition to some excellent primitive

>>> sheep and some fine examples of older lines - I don't consider

>>> it a "show flock". It's probably my misinterpretation of the

>>> term. I tend to see it as meaning a flock that breeds with

>>> winning shows as the only goal.  Hope you don't mind me using

>>> you for an example, Royal :-)

>>>

>>> Sounds like you do a great job of promoting Jacobs, Meg.  Keep

>>> up the good work! You've inspired me.

>>> Speaking of shows. We're hoping to get a good showing of Jacobs

>>> at the NC Mountain State Fair in Asheville, NC in September. If

>>> we get enough entries, we will be considered for Jacob classes

>>> in 2009. Also in Asheville, things are looking good for Jacob

>>> classes at the 2008 SAFF (Southeastern Animal Fiber Fair) the

>>> last weekend in October. I'll be emailing the SE JSBA members a

>>> bit later in the year with more details. If you think you might

>>> want to show at either of these shows, do let me know.  Making

>>> a trip this way to deliver or pick up sheep?  Spend a day at

>>> the show and help promote Jacobs.

>>>

>>> Linda

>>>

>>>

>>> www.patchworkfibers.com

>>> Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

>>>

>>>

>>>> In central OH - we show primarily to promote the breed and

>>>> the idea of conserving sheep/species on the ALBC list.  We

>>>> take the best specimens we have and I will send as mmany as 7

>>>> different yearlings to 4 fairs.  When we win (often at 2 of

>>>> the fairs - but the Ohio State Fair is just a static exhobit

>>>> of 20 diff breeds), it is an added incentive.  We have to

>>>> sgow in the ALL OTHER BREEDS category against whatever other

>>>> bring.

>>>>

>>>> I also take the sheep to pageants and other show opps (may

>>>> try nursing homes sometime with the llamas).  Sat Mar 8 we

>>>> are going to a B&B Open House with stock, fiber, and a pelt. 

>>>> My friend Dennis has aleady sold them some petting lambs and

>>>> baby goats.

>>>>

>>>> I would guess that the folks who routinely go to the Maryland

>>>> Sheep and Wooll Fest have real show flocks.  The Stacks in AR

>>>> have many of my very best offspring from the last couple of

>>>> years - I hope they are able to build a show flock with them.

>>>>

>>>> Gotothewhip at aol.com wrote:

>>>>> As you all know, We are pretty new to this, and are REALLY

>>>>> enjoying the show aspect (Mostly fueled by the winning)  Am

>>>>> curious.. Are there breeders in the Jacob world that are

>>>>> known for their show sheep?  And is there any record

>>>>> keeping as far as show ring sucess?

>>>>>

>>>>> Jennifer Tucker

>>>>> Moose Mtn Ranch

>>>>> Bennett, CO

>>>>>

>>>>>

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