[Jacob-list] Re: Dogs and Sheep

[stockdogs]

I  also have experienced dog-strikes, enough that a few years ago I dispersed my little flock out of fear for their lives.  The main perpetrators (1 pittbull, 1 Rott) were impounded, twice, and I'm assuming PTS after the last impound.  I too love dogs and did not blame them, their owner was a jerk that kept them cabled to a tree and occassioanlly drug a bag of generic dog food out to throw in a bucket.  He was not great about water for them either.   He's moved thankfully.

Not that I've owned a lot of sheep myself but what I have noticed is that sheep are pretty good at reading dogs.  I have been doing stockdog rescue (Border Collies, Cattle Dogs, Kelpies) for 10 years now and have been sporadically taking herding lessons for about that many years also.  I've fostered and re-homed at least 150 dogs and since mostly they're stockdogs I'll often have them tested on sheep.  It's an interesting study to watch the reaction of the sheep, from shear panic, to just keeping out of the way, to out-an-out stubbstare-downdown, or if you're lucky to actually  moving where and when you'd like them to.  

A couple of weeks ago I went to help a friend on shearing day.  I was working the chute and holding pen and the sheep (of course) did not want to go up the ramp into the trailer for their coiffe.  There was someone there with her well started BC that was trying to use her dog in the pend to keep the sheep bunched up and headed into the shearing chute but the dog didn't have enough power and the sheep had him cornered.  The poor guy was not happy or confident and the sheep knew it.   I brought in my BC who has less training but more presence and those sheep decided to stay up near the ramp after that.  This same dog will patiently  lie down next to a sheep that has given up and collapsed to (they think) be eaten.  He was also rolled by my ram last weekend and had to give the ram a lesson or two on who was boss after that.  They are still debating and I feel it ended up in a tie.  I'm sure the next time we go out there will be a re-match.

Sally
Sleepy Hollow Sheepdogs
Washington (the state, not the capitol)

> Sorry, I just had to chime in here. I love dogs, and have spent alot of time 
> reseaching them and been on various message boards (especially for working 
> dogs.), and let me tell you, alot of the working dogs (especially in the bull 
> and mastiff family and alot of the working line Shepherds.) are tough as nails. 
> You have to remember, that alot of them were originally bred for fighting bulls, 
> bears, boar, and other dogs. And nowadays, the Shepherds aren't used much for 
> herding, but for police work (which requires high-drive dogs). 
> Matthew 
> Peaceful Valley Farm 
> Ringgold, GA 
> www.peacefulvalleyfarm.com 
> 
> Excellent point, Matthew. I certainly would not expect a flock of sheep, of any 
> breed, to be able to defend itself against a dog. Any dog. Sure, some dogs, no 
> matter the size will be intimidated by being butted by a sheep, but other dogs, 
> also no matter the size, will just latch on. Sheep have been run to death by 
> dogs the size of Jack Russells and torn apart by 50 lb dogs. Your sheep may be 
> able to physiologically intimidate a certain dog at a certain time, but when/if 
> the dog strikes back, I doubt your sheep is going to win. 

> 
> I will have to second the idea that it all depends on the dog. 
> 
> George, our big collie/chow/lab mix LOVED lambs. Ivy was a bummer lamb that 
> wound up in the house. George cleaned her up for us (not a job I wanted and even 
> allowed her to nurse and punch where she probably shouldn't. Ivy and George 
> continued to recognize each other as long as she lived. When George went to the 
> pasture with us, she would run to meet him and they would nuzzle and lick each 
> other's faces. 
> 
> Lucky, our current house Boston terrier/mutt is bound and determined to chase 
> down and eat a lamb. Fortunately, he is getting lazy in his older age. 
> 
> Early on, a large dog got into the sheep pasture and tore up several ewes. He 
> was big enough that he was able to grab a two month old lamb across the back and 
> puncture both flanks with his canines. Our large two horned ram jumped a 4+ foot 
> panel to get out of his pen and attack the dog. Buster had numerous wounds on 
> his face, but we never saw evidence of the dog again. 
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