[Jacob-list] Horns on ram lamb

[Neal and Louise Grose]

Our Jacobs tend to have horns that are on the small side. Ewes will have top horns that are 4 - 8 inches long.  Upright horns on rams are about 18 inches. The larger the sheep is, the larger the horns will tend to be. This is why it is a good idea to compare siblings.

Gary is right, that it is better to measure horn volume. I was thinking about it in terms of horn length as a simple estimate of the size of the horns. My guess is that the tip of a ram's horn will approximate the size of the ewe's horn. 

If you want to compare horn volume, I suppose that you can measure the length and circumference at the base, the use calculations for the volume of a cone. A simpler method would be to fill a 5 gallon bucket to the rim with water. Pick up a sheep by the heels and dip a horn in the bucket. You can then measure the displacement by refilling the bucket with a graduated cylinder. Nah.

What I suspect that we might see is that there are varying ways that testosterone affect horn growth.

Neal

PS: My favorite quote on statistics is from Sylvia (bless her martini soaked neurons): "My weight is perfect for my height...which varies."
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda 
  To: fayg at mebtel.net ; Neal and Louise Grose 
  Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Horns on ram lamb


  You'd have to compare your ewe and ram horns to Neal's ewe and ram horns in order to draw any conclusions.  Maybe Neal's ewes have bigger horns? 

  I've read, probably on this list or in the JSC Journal, that horn growth on wethers can be an indicator of the presence of the sex-linked horned gene.  If a wether doesn't develop further horn growth after castration, it could be an indicator that he carries the genetics of a breed that is only horned in rams.   I don't have any personal experience with the theory.  I did see a wether, Pokey, at a friend's farm that had pretty darn impressive horns - well, they were big - and forward, but they got alot bigger than ewe horns.  If I'm not mistaken (and I don't think I am this time), he was wethered by vet so he was a real wether.  I have a yearling wether at the moment that I had wethered at around 6 months at the vets.  His horns are bigger than a ewe's horns, but not as big as a ram's horns.

  Linda


  www.patchworkfibers.com
  Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

  On Sun,  5 Mar 2006 17:31:19 -0500, fayg at mebtel.net wrote:
  > Neil,
  >
  > Not to be disagreeable ... but my 4 horn rams by volume are 6-10
  > times the size of my oldest ewes, probably 5 x on length. I cant
  > bring myself to band demasculate any of by rams, but I have two
  > twins of one of each .... would make an interesting study ...
  >
  > My favorite statistics quote is, there are 3 kinds of lies, lies,
  > damn lies and statistics.
  >
  > G
  >
  > Quoting Neal and Louise Grose <nlgrose at yadtel.net>:
  >
  >> There seems to be a difference of opinion on horn growth on
  >> wethers. I have heard reports before of everything from ewe size
  >> to near ram size (though not as robust). It is possible that all
  >> of these are correct.
  >>
  >> In our flock, ram horns seem to be about 3 times the size of
  >> ewe's. Wether horns seem to grow about 50% larger than ewe horns.
  >>
  >> Just as an informal study, do several people have wethers that
  >> are siblings to ewes and/or rams that could be measured and
  >> compared?
  >>
  >> Neal Grose
  >>
  >> "Statistics gives you a correct answer. That does not mean you
  >> have asked the right question." STAT301
  >>
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  >
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