[Jacob-list] can of worms

[Jacobflock at aol.com]

In a message dated 8/1/2006 4:02:17 PM Central Standard Time, 
patchworkfibers at alltel.net writes:

> I think if you go through all the old flock books, you will find registered 
> Jacobs born in January.  


I think we often use the term "registered" as synonomous with "pure bred" and 
that is a concept hard to kick.  To describe the genetic constitution of an 
individual or group of individuals of asny breed requires that we would have to 
specicify their genotype and how many of each genotype there are within the 
breed.  I find it more convenient to start with the accepted genotype of 
dominant Black, recessive piebald, and polycerate in both sexes. If it is a "breed", 
it breeds true and does not throw any offspring apart from the basic Jacob 
genotype.  If "registered" Jacobs throw "non-Jacobs" the ram or ewe, even tho 
registered, should be eliminated from the gene pool.

Yup, some of the "old" Jacob listings and "flock books" do contain some 
non-Jacob sheep are even described as such, and as generations of progeny appeared 
some of them became "registered".  Yes, some born outside of "Spring".

I think I may have seen a few born in December.  I'm a little uncertain on 
what 
> constitutes "seasonally".  I understand what seasonally means, but does it 
> vary from area to area?  Has anyone ever put "proven purebred" rams in with 
> the "proven purebred" ewes in July/August to see if any get bred?


What if "Jacobs are seasonal breedeers"  had more to do with physiology and 
nature than our concept of "Spring".  What if "seasons" sort of kicked in at 
different days of the year ... like instructions on a packet of garden seeds.  
It is my recollection that the length of day light triggeredl ewe homones and 
daily temperature affected ram motility.  That is, mother nature kick started 
the ovulation and fertilization process; not that we can't fool mother naturew 
with a "shot" or changing the lights or "cooling down" libido or aiding 
ovulation.

  Or put them together in May?  Running them together all year around is not 
the 
> same as introducing them at set times. Would we all just say "well, that 
> ewe lambed in December, so she must not be purebred"? Or would we have to 
> rethink the definition of either seasonal or purebred?
> 


We have rather extreme temperatures in TX and running them together is not a 
"breeding" situation provided the haighs are 100 and the lows are about 80.  
We, and other Jacob breeders have run ewes and rams in "the heat", not "when in 
heat".  Generally, Spetember is a critical temperature change time and the 
ewes will have started cycling.  "Fat" and "flushed" ewes may begin with strong 
ova in August (light changed 6 weeks earlier) ... so feed and mangement play a 
part.

Out of season breeding may be one basis for questioning a genotype but is not 
"proof" of genotype.  Thus, equating "out of season breeding" with "not-pure 
bred" is another "leap".  It may not be a question of rethinking the 
definition of pure bred and seasonal,k it is a question of correctly understanding 
"pure bred" and "seasonal breeding".  The Dorset is probably one of the better 
known out of season breeds; a cursory review of its genotype and some phenotypic 
charactyerisitcs suggests a path to true "ot of season breeding", perhaps 
Finnsheep for triples and more?, Barbados for some assocated piebald and color 
problems, etc.  In fact someone remarked a few weeks ago that the "Finn" on the 
^6/06 cover of Shepherd looked like a "Jacob" ... "except for the horns of 
course".  
  
> 
> In my part of the woods, my ewes tend to not breed before the first of 
> October, even when I put adult rams in the first of September.  
> 

Question from the flat cotton patch,  what is a "woods"?
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