[Jacob-list] comparisons across the Pond

[gordon johnston]

Hi Betty and all
Yes, sad though it is, the JSS over here does seem to be concerned with 'improving ' the British Jacob and we are delighted that over there you are not.  However, the picture here is not as bad as you portray :
 <<< These (Betty's) are REAL sheep, to my way of thinking, not the pathetic, genetically engineered wimps who can't count to two at lambing time and don't keep their babies clean, and need lots of intervention.  Those aren't sheep; they're mutants! to my way of thinking.  They might have great fleece to spin.  They might be pretty.,  But if they can't take care of themselves for the most part, then I don't want them. >>>
Not even the show sheep could be described as pathetic or unable to look after their lambs and certainly none are genetically modified.  Gordon and I are not at all happy with the way Jacobs here in Britain are becoming larger, to the extent that some of the show specimens could be described as fat, but there are still plenty of smaller, hardy , thrifty Jacobs out here, well able to lamb outside, care for their lambs and count to three.
Our feeling is that the reported birthing difficulties and high intervention rate may be the result of lambing in January indoors, with overweight ewes. When we first got our Jacobs a few years ago, from one of the big breeders here, we were told that they could not lamb outdoors and needed X amount of commercial concentrate mix.  We had big problems. Once we got to know a bit more about Jacobs and about primitive sheep, we kept the lot together outdoors all winter, gave them a minimum of dry food (but ad lib hay) and let them get on with it.  Those same (now rather elderly ) ewes last year all lambed outside without any intervention and produced either twins or triplets without a single problem.  I'm not sure what you mean about them not keeping their babies bottoms clean - the Jacobs all clean their lambs backsides just as well as any other primitive.  The only sheep I am aware of which has a poor reputation for mothering is the Suffolk. I did mention having to work at keeping lambs bottoms clean when they go onto lush grass but that is when they are a couple of months old and way past having their behinds licked.

<<< And I try to be very diligent at sorting out the cosmetic characteristics which have been proven to be indicators of "improvement" campaigns in the past, for fear my precious cheeky jacobs will become "just sheep".>>>
When I said <<< ... all you are doing is selecting out the longer tails but not any of the other features coming from the other breeds, which will not be bound to the tail length and may not be so easily visible...... you are only tweaking the phenotype not the genotype.>>> I did not explain very well.  What I am trying to say is that if you cull an animal with, say, a longer than desirable tail, because that is a sign of past 'improvement' attempts, all you are doing is removing an animal with a long tail ; you are not removing the genes from the other breed. For example, if a very bad tempered man with blue eyes has a child with blue eyes, it will not also necessarily be bad tempered - the genes for the two characteristics, while coming from the same parent are not passed on together - the bad temper may be passed to a different offspring , with green eyes.  With the alleged Dorset blood, the pink nose may be passed down the generations to some descendants, but those same descendants will not necessarily be the same ones who have inherited the greater size, or any other Dorset characteristics.  So when you cull those lambs you may think that you are eliminating any Dorset blood from your breeding pool - you are eliminating some, but other lambs will get through your net, with dark noses but nonetheless Dorset genes. From your quote above, it is very unlikely that pink noses have been inherited along with a docile, non-cheeky temperament, although of course it could be so.( Having said that, we don't like pink noses on our Jacobs, so would not breed from them.)
I find this something of a quandary, as we can never get rid of the alien blood, unless perhaps our animals are fully genotyped, and who could afford that. On the other hand we can and should be very vigilant to prevent any further crossbreeding.  I am always amazed at how few generations pass before obvious signs of crossing disappear and the new animal can pass as a purebred member of the breed. All it takes is an unscrupulous breeder who lies about his pedigrees.  BTW in case any of you over there think that the alleged crossing with Dorsets, or any other breed was sanctioned by the JSS, I don't believe that was the case and it is strongly denied that it happened at all......

Going back to tails, I had assumed that by preferring tails to be not below the hock, your breed societies are trying to keep out blood from local longer tailed sheep, not Northern short tails.  I don't know how long the Dorset tails are, but I don't think they are ground draggers.
Incidentally, if as we suspect the Hebrideans have picked up some Jacob blood during their years together in the English Parklands, then it seems logical to assume that the Jacobs have also picked up some Hebridean blood.
 
Over the years we have kept Jacobs, Gordon and I have tried hard to get breeders here to appreciate the primitive characteristics of their sheep, but without success - they simply do not understand why that might be desirable. But we have found that there are many many breeders who keep Jacobs but are not members of the JSS and dislike the spotty mammoths as much as we do - so there's still some hope for the primitive Jacob over here.
Juliet in Scotland UK
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