Wolfy
Gerry Storm
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Mon Sep 6 11:54:04 2004
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Whoo Ewie,
You seem to have quieted the ideologues.
So much for the creditability of Mssrs Ford and Eisenstadt on this =
subject.
G
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bill Irwin=20
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: Wolfy=20
Jon:
Better get out your barf bag before you read this story.
Serving Two Flags
The Bush Neo-Cons and Israel
By STEPHEN GREEN
Since 9-11, a small group of "neo-conservatives" in the Administration =
have effectively gutted--they would say reformed--traditional American =
foreign and security policy. Notable features of the new Bush doctrine =
include the pre-emptive use of unilateral force, and the undermining of =
the United Nations and the principle instruments and institutions of =
international law....all in the cause of fighting terrorism and =
promoting homeland security.=20
Some skeptics, noting the neo-cons' past academic and professional =
associations, writings and public utterances, have suggested that their =
underlying agenda is the alignment of U.S. foreign and security policies =
with those of Ariel Sharon and the Israeli right wing. The =
administration's new hard line on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict =
certainly suggests that, as perhaps does the destruction, with U.S. =
soldiers and funds, of the military capacity of Iraq, and the current =
belligerent neo-con campaign against the other two countries which =
constitute a remaining counterforce to Israeli military hegemony in the =
region--Iran and Syria.=20
The rest of the story At > =
http://www.counterpunch.org/green09032004.html
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jon Ford=20
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: Wolfy=20
Mike-- Thanks for clarifying this stuff. I heard so much about the =
evil "conservative Jews" who weilded such influence on mindless George =
when I was on the Ghetto2 list that it made we want to puke. Thanks also =
to Byron for his first-hand portrait of Wolfowitz.
Jon
>From: "Michael Eisenstadt" <michaele@HotPOP.com>=20
>Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
>To: <blacky@cbn.net.id>, <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>=20
>Subject: Re: Wolfy=20
>Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 10:24:46 -0600=20
>=20
>In advance, I apologize for ranting on on this subject.=20
>=20
>I read The Rise of the Vulcans by Jim Mann. He is a journalist,=20
>this is his first book, he takes a very just-the-facts approach=20
>to the Vulcans. He does NOT talk about Bush. It may not be=20
>easily available to you in Jakarta. It is a long slow plodding=20
>read but having read it to the end, I feel like I understand=20
>more about Powell, Chaney, C.Rice, Wolfowitz and Armitage=20
>and Rumsfeld than I did.=20
>=20
>I apologize to everyone for being such a one note Charlie=20
>about this, but I feel i should REALLY drive this point home:=20
>to point to Wolfowitz or to Perle as pushing us the wrong=20
>way, that is some jew or other is manipulating us again,=20
>that amounts to demonizing some/all jews and making them=20
>into an Evil Principle at work in the world.=20
>=20
>This is actually a religious belief at its core, a sort of=20
>Manichean belief where the Devil is replaced by his=20
>doppelgaengers Wolfowitz and Perle.=20
>=20
>Wolfowitz does NOT make policy. Read Jim Mann's book.=20
>Perle is not in government.=20
>=20
>Perle is an out and out crook it turns out. Wolfowitz so=20
>far as the world knows is a hardworking, uncorrupt in=20
>his modest personal life and apparently personable=20
>employee of the State Department. Pointing to Perle=20
>and Wolfowitz as the causes of anything at all is not=20
>well considered and not explanatory of important real=20
>life events. Like I said, read Jim Mann's book.=20
>=20
>I promise no more ranting anytime soon on this subject=20
>(unless provoked ;-)=20
>=20
>Mike=20
>=20
>----- Original Message -----=20
>From: <blacky@cbn.net.id>=20
>Subject: Wolfy=20
>=20
>=20
> > Wolfowitz was by far the most successful and popular American =
ambassador=20
> > to Indonesia, for many years.=20
> >=20
> > The one time I spoke to him, I asked him what it wa like as a =
high-profile=20
> > Jew, in a country which is mostly Muslim (85%+) and does not =
even have=20
> > diplomatic relations with Israel.=20
> >=20
> > He said that the only time he noticed it was when he gave a =
magazine=20
> > interview, which touched on most of his personal and =
professional history.=20
> > He mentioned to the interviewer that he was an American Jew -- =
and that=20
> > was the one thing that did not make it into the magazine.=20
> >=20
> > I found him interesting and articulate. But he's apparently =
consumed with=20
> > ambition: why else would he play ball with those dopes in the =
White House?=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB=20
>=20
>=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Whoo Ewie,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>You seem to have quieted the =
ideologues.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>So much for the creditability of Mssrs Ford and =
Eisenstadt=20
on this subject.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>G</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dbilli@aloha.net href=3D"mailto:billi@aloha.net">Bill =
Irwin</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 05, =
2004 4:51=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Wolfy </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jon:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Better get out your barf bag before =
you read this=20
story.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<H1 align=3D3D justify? Schoolbook,serif? Century New linotype, =
palatino=20
groove=3D"2pt;font-family:" border: 1em; padding: 2em; margin-bottom:=20
5%;background-color:=3D"Lightgoldenrodyellow;" margin-right: 40%;=20
margin-left:><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 =
size=3D+2>Serving Two=20
Flags</FONT></H1>
<H1 align=3D3D justify? Schoolbook,serif? Century New linotype, =
palatino=20
groove=3D"2pt;font-family:" border: 1em; padding: 2em; margin-bottom:=20
5%;background-color:=3D"Lightgoldenrodyellow;" margin-right: 40%;=20
margin-left:><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#990000 =
size=3D+2>The Bush=20
Neo-Cons and Israel</FONT></H1>
<P align=3D3D justify? Schoolbook,serif? Century New linotype, =
palatino=20
groove=3D"2pt;font-family:" border: 1em; padding: 2em; margin-bottom:=20
5%;background-color:=3D"Lightgoldenrodyellow;" margin-right: 40%;=20
margin-left:><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 =
size=3D+2>By STEPHEN=20
GREEN</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#990000 size=3D+2>S</FONT><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
size=3D-1>ince 9-11, a small group of "neo-conservatives" in the =
Administration=20
have effectively gutted--they would say reformed--traditional American =
foreign=20
and security policy. Notable features of the new Bush doctrine include =
the=20
pre-emptive use of unilateral force, and the undermining of the United =
Nations=20
and the principle instruments and institutions of international =
law....all in=20
the cause of fighting terrorism and promoting homeland security. =
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D-1>Some skeptics, noting the neo-cons' =
past=20
academic and professional associations, writings and public =
utterances, have=20
suggested that their underlying agenda is the alignment of U.S. =
foreign and=20
security policies with those of Ariel Sharon and the Israeli right =
wing. The=20
administration's new hard line on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict =
certainly=20
suggests that, as perhaps does the destruction, with U.S. soldiers and =
funds,=20
of the military capacity of Iraq, and the current belligerent neo-con =
campaign=20
against the other two countries which constitute a remaining =
counterforce to=20
Israeli military hegemony in the region--Iran and Syria. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>The rest of the story At > <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.counterpunch.org/green09032004.html">http://www.counte=
rpunch.org/green09032004.html</A></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Djonmfordster@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:jonmfordster@hotmail.com">Jon=20
Ford</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 05, =
2004 7:20=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Wolfy </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3DRTE>
<P><BR><BR></P>Mike-- Thanks for clarifying this stuff. I heard so =
much=20
about the evil "conservative Jews" who weilded such influence on =
mindless=20
George when I was on the Ghetto2 list that it made we want to=20
puke. Thanks also to Byron for his first-hand portrait of=20
Wolfowitz.</DIV>
<DIV class=3DRTE> </DIV>
<DIV class=3DRTE>Jon</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P> </P>
<P> </P>
<P>>From: "Michael Eisenstadt" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:michaele@HotPOP.com">michaele@HotPOP.com</A>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
<DIV></DIV>>To: <blacky@cbn.net.id>,=20
<austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: Wolfy=20
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 10:24:46 -0600=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>In advance, I apologize for ranting on on this =
subject.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>I read The Rise of the Vulcans by Jim Mann. He is a=20
journalist,=20
<DIV></DIV>>this is his first book, he takes a very =
just-the-facts=20
approach=20
<DIV></DIV>>to the Vulcans. He does NOT talk about Bush. It may =
not be=20
<DIV></DIV>>easily available to you in Jakarta. It is a long slow =
plodding=20
<DIV></DIV>>read but having read it to the end, I feel like I =
understand=20
<DIV></DIV>>more about Powell, Chaney, C.Rice, Wolfowitz and =
Armitage=20
<DIV></DIV>>and Rumsfeld than I did.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>I apologize to everyone for being such a one note =
Charlie=20
<DIV></DIV>>about this, but I feel i should REALLY drive this =
point home:=20
<DIV></DIV>>to point to Wolfowitz or to Perle as pushing us the =
wrong=20
<DIV></DIV>>way, that is some jew or other is manipulating us =
again,=20
<DIV></DIV>>that amounts to demonizing some/all jews and making =
them=20
<DIV></DIV>>into an Evil Principle at work in the world.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>This is actually a religious belief at its core, a =
sort of=20
<DIV></DIV>>Manichean belief where the Devil is replaced by his=20
<DIV></DIV>>doppelgaengers Wolfowitz and Perle.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Wolfowitz does NOT make policy. Read Jim Mann's book. =
<DIV></DIV>>Perle is not in government.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Perle is an out and out crook it turns out. Wolfowitz =
so=20
<DIV></DIV>>far as the world knows is a hardworking, uncorrupt in =
<DIV></DIV>>his modest personal life and apparently personable=20
<DIV></DIV>>employee of the State Department. Pointing to Perle=20
<DIV></DIV>>and Wolfowitz as the causes of anything at all is not =
<DIV></DIV>>well considered and not explanatory of important real =
<DIV></DIV>>life events. Like I said, read Jim Mann's book.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>I promise no more ranting anytime soon on this =
subject=20
<DIV></DIV>>(unless provoked ;-)=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Mike=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV></DIV>>From: <blacky@cbn.net.id>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Wolfy=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Wolfowitz was by far the most successful and =
popular=20
American ambassador=20
<DIV></DIV>> > to Indonesia, for many years.=20
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>> > The one time I spoke to him, I asked him what =
it wa=20
like as a high-profile=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Jew, in a country which is mostly Muslim (85%+) =
and=20
does not even have=20
<DIV></DIV>> > diplomatic relations with Israel.=20
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>> > He said that the only time he noticed it was =
when he=20
gave a magazine=20
<DIV></DIV>> > interview, which touched on most of his =
personal and=20
professional history.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > He mentioned to the interviewer that he was an =
American=20
Jew -- and that=20
<DIV></DIV>> > was the one thing that did not make it into the =
magazine.=20
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>> > I found him interesting and articulate. But =
he's=20
apparently consumed with=20
<DIV></DIV>> > ambition: why else would he play ball with =
those dopes=20
in the White House?=20
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>> > BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
<HR>
<A href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2731??PS=3D47575">Express =
yourself=20
instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!</A>=20
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