Fools rush in...again

[Gerry Storm]

Wayne,
Your flame on Igor's post misses the point that he is trying to make which
is: brutal attrocities occur at the front and in the prison camps of every
war and the media reports on only a small number of them. Abu Ghraib is not
a particularly attrocious example of these but par for the course, not on
the same scale as Andersonville. The media fit over it will do some good but
will not stop brutality at the front. Those who are there doing the dirty
work have no time nor stomach for their critics well behind the front who
find fault with their methods and actions. When someone is trying to kill
you and you are seeing your buddies fall, you don't find much solace in the
Geneva Convention. Once you pull the trigger it is too late for apologies.
Brutality happens.

The leaders of the US did not comprehend what they were in for by starting
this war, without provocation, and they are helpless to do anything now to
put out the fire. Once you loose those terrible spirits it is all but
impossible to stop them, a truth the old soldiers can tell you about but one
that the fools in the white house did not and apparently do not comprehend.
The only way to end it is to leave, and hope that time will heal the wounds.

It is difficult to know how ugly war is until you walk through the ruins of
a country where one has just been fought and see the terrible toll on all
life forms caught up in the act. This overwhelming sadness is not
communicable.
G

----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net>
To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:15 AM
Subject: Fools rush in...again


> You know Igor, I frankly don't give a damn about your experiences.
Nothing
> you have written that I have seen suggests that you have developed any
> sensitivity to anything.
>
> I have known a lot of Nam vets who learned a great deal about themselves
and
> about command decisions and how the government fucks everyone over.  They
> were/are brave men who cried for their lost comrades and their own lost
> innocence.  I am proud of them and their contribution for what they
believed
> was a just and noble cause.  That I don't agree with their understanding
in
> no fashion belittles or demeans their sacrifice.
>
> Glad you don't like Halliburton but the rest of your views just depict a
> mind that is closed and happy to be that way.
>
> As for Andersonville, there were many people who despised this situation
and
> railed against it.  It was after all "bleeding heart liberals" who were
the
> Abolitionist movement.  And the Civil Rights movement after that.  And the
> Environmental movement after that.  And the Regime Change movement right
> now.
>
> If you can't understand the broader implications of what is going on here
> and in Iraq, then stick to something you can grapple with like Spider man.
> And for pity's sake, man, lose those stupid phrases like "bleeding heart
> liberal".  Makes you sound like more of a red-neck moron than you probably
> are.  Find yourself a nice Evangelical Church somewhere and have a good
roll
> on the floor.
>
> Oh, dear, I have flamed again.  Good.
>
> wayne johnson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "IgorLoving" <lovingigor@earthlink.net>
> To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:06 PM
> Subject: RE: How did we get to Abu Ghraib?
>
>
> > War is a tarvesty but it has been with us since forever. If you read
about
> prisons you will see that they are all bad. Andersonville didn't have a
> bunch of bleeding heart liberals crying about treatment. The Japanese
> treated out men like shit at Batan and no one worte stupid whiney stuff
> about that. Read about John McCain and his experiences in Hanoi and you
get
> the idea. I did two tours in Nam and the last one wasn't much fun. So the
> babble about our guys kicking ass in the prison is natural stuff. I don't
> get too excited about it. Americans are the same as evweryone else and
that
> is the was revealed. Hah we are just as much a bunch of ass holes as
> everyone else we just have the dumb ass media looking over our sholders.
The
> French I served with in Angola hated the media. The media told what they
> were doing. We didn't need media to do the job. The job was to make the
> world safe for Hailburton and we did it well , sort of.
> >
> > ----Original Message-----
> > From: Frances Morey <frances_morey@excite.com>
> > Sent: May 20, 2004 12:28 AM
> > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > Subject: RE: How did we get to Abu Ghraib?
> >
> >
> > Wayne,
> > I don't think I have zip file capability on this computer. The last time
I
> tried to open a zip file something wormed into every nook and crany of the
> stored files with pop-up-poop-nonsense, some 42 screens of it, which I had
> to delete every time I turned on the machine--so I am wary of them. What
is
> the attachment, photo or text? Sounds like a road movie, "The Road to Abu
> Ghraib," staring Lyndie and her consort.
> > Frances
> >
> >
> >
> >  --- On Wed 05/19, Wayne Johnson < cadaobh@shentel.net > wrote:
> > From: Wayne Johnson [mailto: cadaobh@shentel.net]
> > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> >      Cc: strongjim@yahoo.com
> > Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:47:48 -0400
> > Subject: How did we get to Abu Ghraib?
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> > <HTML><HEAD>
> > <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
> > <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR>
> > <STYLE></STYLE>
> > </HEAD>
> > <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
> > <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
> > <p>Attachment: Milgram.zip  (953.17KB)<br>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>