let's not do nuance

[telebob]

Wayne-

I think as you do, and thank you for reminding us that most priests and
factotems are basically criminals who spread cultural myths (all the better
if they believe what they preach, it makes it easier for them to sleep)in
order to retain and extend personal and institutional power.  This is not to
say that there are no benefits, since those common mythyologies help to
create a 'public order' no matter what the standard.  Are religious
societies 'better' than secular societies?  How do we measure?  These are
topics worthy of millions of tomes, and indeed you know they are out there
discussing this shit still, like a bunch of sophomores who have just
dicovered 'philosophy'.

But my dad, who was a doctor, was in a 'philosophical' mood one night, a
little in his cups, and he related.  "I watch people die and people born
every day as a part of my job, and all I can say is, 'Where does the flame
go when it goes out?'  Does the flame have a soul?" He was not a religious
man, though he tried to keep up appearances. On the other hand, he was
'moral' person who enjoyed overpaying his taxes and never breaking a traffic
law.

So when we are approached by 'holy men' of any stripe, know you are being
approached by the powers of darkness. This includes rabbis, priests,
mullahs, and most medicine men.  I put my faith in the scientific method and
its self correcting process.

What do we have to look forward to?  The peace of the grave.  Heaven is here
on earth, make the best of it. People who identify with their 'religions'
are essentially deciding which 'team' they want to play on.  Imagine it as
though all religions are just sports teams, and you are free to join or not.
But if you put on the uniform, then you have to play for your side, and you
have to follow the coach and the quarterback's rules or get thrown out for
being a 'bad sport.'

Religion and those who follow it are just like Roger says, tribal apes.  God
bless Thorsten Veblen and Madalyn Murray O'Hair.

telegnostic

-----Original Message-----
From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Wayne Johnson
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:20 PM
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Subject: Re: let's not do nuance


Oh, I wish I didn't feel compelled to write this.  I know, just know, that I
will surely regret it.  But I just can't find any sane and
non-Transcendental argument for the existence of a "soul".  I really,
really wish it were true and that we could all come back again, but my
belief is that when the "biological" light goes out...it stays out.  Finito!
No mas!

>From my perspective, we have some tens of thousands of years of "wishful"
thinking aided and abetted by a bunch of semi-literate, semi-criminals who
wish to profit by spreading mystical and irrational beliefs.  Did Arthur go
to Avalon?  Probably not, as much as I would like it to be so. Ain't going
to see him again.  Nor any other person what has kicked the "biological"
bucket.  Doornails is doornails and when you is gone, you is over.

So.  What do I have to look forward to?  Not a damn thing.  Is that
existential or what?

Cheers until then...."Happy Trails to You, until we meet again".

wj

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pepi Plowman" <pepstoil@yahoo.com>
To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: let's try to do nuance


>
> --- Michael Eisenstadt <michaele@ando.pair.com> wrote:
> > Pepi,
> >
> > Thanks for writing at length about this.
> >
> > No, I don't speak it.
> >
> > In Hebrew school (to prepare for confirmation at 13
> > for the sake of my religious grandmother who would
> > have had a fit if I wasn't confirmed), we used to
> > say
> > Baruch ator, I don't know anymore.
> >
> > Baruch ator are the first 2 words of all the
> > prayers.
> > Actually we worked our way through quite a bit of
> > Genesis reading it in the original which was my
> > original
> > introduction to the ENORMOUS charm of reading a
> > foreign language.When I slowly worked my way through
> >
> > one of the books of the Iliad in the original many
> > years
> > later, I thought back to Miss Snow with the enormous
> >
> > boobs driving us like Gadarene swine through the
> > beginning
> > of the bible.
>
> Amusing visuals here!
>
> >
> > As for your and your sisters' previous lives, that
> > sounds
> > like hard work.
>
> Seems like it always is.
>
> >
> > Let me get this straight: the jews burnt in the
> > ovens
> > came back as the Plowman sisters (or some of the
> > Plowman sisters); the Nazis who died came back as
> > Israelis.
> >
> > I still come back to this simple question: if you
> > and your
> > sisters love all people all that much, how do you
> > come
> > to the conclusion that the Israelis are reborn
> > Nazis?
>
> A few Israelis, perhaps.  Certainly, not all.  This is
> merely supposition, in any case, as we both know.  But
> I would say by observing the ones who manifest a
> similar persona with a similar agenda (except for the
> reversal of the victims), however you would describe a
> Nazi.  Sharon, perhaps?  Hey, for all we know, Arafat
> may have been a Jew in his past lifetime!
> >
>
> > You write:
> >
> > > But may you not hate too much, it's bad for the
> > soul
> > > (I know, you don't believe in its existence.  Oh,
> > > well, so be it).
> >
> > I'm not the hater. I was taking exception to other
> > folks'
> > hatred. Is that allowed in your scheme of things?
>
> You were taking exception to others with your
> assumption that they hated--sometimes an incorrect
> one.  And certainly, we've already been here...you're
> allowed to be as incorrect as you like, and I'm
> allowed to perceive you that way, whether you see it
> that way or not.
>
> >
> > And yes, it is totally bad for the soul. I believe
> > in the
> > existence of the soul, I just don't believe in its
> > survival
> > after death. That's for cowards who don't want to
> > accept that they must die and stay dead.
>
> Death is a part of Life--they're not opposites--our
> energies continue into perpetuity.  Any scientist will
> tell you that there is no energy on earth that can be
> made to disappear completely--it merely transforms
> into something else.
>
> It has nothing to do with being a coward or not.   If
> one leaves one's body and is awake, as everyone does
> when sleeping, it's enough proof for me that there is
> a soul. You're crossing a room.  No, you're floating
> across the room.  You look down at your body.  No
> body.  A light the color of a Peace Rose.  Is that
> Life?
>
> >
> > And I aint got no agenda.
>
> Well, good, I'm glad to hear that!
>
>  If you or others want to
> > believe in up to 5 impossible things before
> > breakfast
> > like the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland, hey! be
> > my guest!
> >
> Thanks, my friend, for taking a different tone with
> me.
>
> Best to you,
>
> Pepi
> > Best,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > P.S. When it comes to learning foreign languages,
> > unless
> > one is a very talented linguini, you hafta choose
> > which
> > one or two or three is it is worth learning in terms
> > of
> > what's written in said languages. Having been an
> > Asian monk
> > in a previous life, have you learnt or remembered
> > how to
> > speak or read Asian monk books? Or is that
> > considered
> > unnecessary.
> >
> Mostly, as I understand it, a veil drops when people
> are born, hiding past lives from them.  Some people
> have bleedthroughs, like me and my sisters.  I have
> the ability (and so do my sisters) to learn any
> language on earth, if we were to spend time in that
> country.  I've had Chinese friends and learned a few
> words from them, but I've never been immersed in the
> language; I've taken a couple of semesters of
> Japanese, have a great accent and that is all--I loved
> writing the kanji; the same could be said for German,
> except I took it in high school for two years and
> never opened the book (I thought it an ugly language);
> I speak and write Spanish and French; defend myself in
> Italian; have translated Portuguese; took three years
> of Latin (but never bothered to study, so can't say I
> really know it); can understand just about any Latin-
> based language when spoken to me.  My sister speaks
> and writes really GOOD Spanish, Italian, French and
> German; speaks Hebrew and some Arabic; wants to learn
> Russian.  I want to learn Chinese.  Life isn't long
> enough to learn every language or to remember every
> past life.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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