Argus/racluster fundamentals

Carter Bullard carter at qosient.com
Fri Mar 21 15:29:09 EDT 2008


Did you try the clients that fixes the tcp loss problem?  As I said,
you're problem was a bug, and it should now be fixed?

A principal concept of argus's QoS support is to report loss on
the wire.  So when you are a probe, at the sender of data, the
only way you know that the receiver missed some traffic is to
see requests for retransmission.  When the probe is at the receiver,
the only way you know that you missed something, is to check
sequence numbers.   When you are somewhere in the middle,
possibly in an asymmetic path, where you only see one side of
the conversation, its a little more complicated, and argus tries as
much as possible to figure out if there had been any loss.

I'm not sure about your question.  Are you wondering why track loss?
Loss is the #1 cause of TCP dynamic behavior, which equates to
QoS.  So we want to be able to detect, as soon as possible, that a
TCP is experiencing loss.  The #2 impact in QoS for TCP is
flow control.  We track that as well.  Why are you interested in loss?

Argus is very dynamic in how it tracks flows.  It choses the DSR
primarily for transport purposes.  TCP Perf data is pretty big,
over 100 bytes.  You chose that you want argus to supply TcpPerf
data in the argus.conf file, when it is available.  But when its not,
we don't want to transmit/store 100 bytes of zero's if we only saw a
SYN/RST volley, or just a SYN, or just a RST.  Hopefully you're starting
to get the picture.

If you are interested in what argus does, please look at the source
code.  Maybe you'll find a problem, and we can improve it !!!!!

Carter

On Mar 21, 2008, at 1:33 PM, Nick Diel wrote:

> Carter,
>
> Great info.  It appears filters are quite critical when merging on  
> things other than flow key.  Of course now I have more questions.
>
> Primarily how does Argus choose which Tcp DSR record to use.  I know  
> you can specify options with Argus to tell it to generate additional  
> records, and I am sure Argus uses different DSRs for singleton and  
> non-singleton records.  I am just curious what some of the exact  
> methods Argus uses.
>
> I am more of thinking out loud here, but at least for TCP why does  
> Argus look for packet loss by watching sequence numbers?  Shouldn't  
> the only time this method shows a loss (over multiple status flows)  
> is when the connection is going to close abnormally very soon (TCP  
> out of sync, one end down)?  I guess retransmitted packets seems  
> like it should be the only indication of loss?  I am sure you have  
> thought about this a whole lot; I am just having a hard time  
> understanding where this method would be beneficial.  Maybe this  
> method accounts for retransmitted packets too?
>
> Nick
>
>
> Carter Bullard wrote:
>>
>> Hey Nick,
>> When you merge two records together, the aggregation engine goes  
>> through
>> each DSR (data specific record) in the two argus records, and  
>> compares them
>> for applicability/consistency etc... If the 2 corresponding DSRs  
>> are incompatible,
>> the aggregation engine will simply throw that DSR away.
>>
>> All the TCP information, base sequence numbers, acks, roundtrip  
>> times,
>> window sizes, retransmissions, etc .... are all contained in the
>> ARGUS_NETWORK_DSR, which holds protocol specific information.
>> If you merge an ICMP flow with a TCP flow, the aggregator just tosses
>> the ARGUS_NETWORK_DSR away, because the DSR has different
>> meanings and are not compatible, and you lose the TCP specific  
>> information.
>> This can happen when the flow key is just "-m saddr daddr", and so
>> flows between A and B, regardless of protocol, get merged together.
>>
>> If one argus record has, say, ethernet addresses in the  
>> ARGUS_MAC_DSR,
>> but the other record to be merged doesn't have an ARGUS_MAC_DSR, for
>> whatever reason, we'll toss the ARGUS_MAC_DSR when generating the
>> resultant merged record.  Now, there are conditions where we are  
>> "preserving"
>> and we keep the DSR, rather than throw it away.  This happens with
>> ARGUS_AGR_DSR's.  Each DSR has its own set of rules for what to do.
>>
>> However, when the DSR's are compatible, but different, you can get
>> some interesting results.  There are 3 types of ARGUS_NETWORK_DSRs,  
>> for
>> TCP data:  ArgusTcpInit, ArgusTcpStatus, and ArgusTcpPerf, and only  
>> one
>> has loss statistics.  If you merge an ArgusTcpInit DSR (which only  
>> has base sequence
>> numbers, flags and roundtrip times)  with a ArgusTcpPerf DSR (which  
>> has
>> everything), you are suppose to get an ArgusTcpPerf DSR, with some  
>> slight
>> mods to the fields.  (state values get or'd, flags get or'd, base  
>> sequence numbers are
>> checked to make sure they are the same, and if not the result is  
>> adjusted,
>> total bytes transmitted are summed, etc....)  The source code is  
>> pretty dense
>> in this area, so there is a lot to talk about.
>>
>> With loss, there is such a thing as negative loss.  We see this with
>> protocols like ESP and RTP quite often, when packets get out of  
>> order.
>> Argus see's sequence number 23, then 25, and we need to report the
>> flow, and so we report a loss of 1 packet.  Well,  the next packet
>> that argus see's after sending the status report,  is packet number  
>> 24 and
>> then 26 and then 27.   Well, we need to report that 24 showed up,  
>> and so
>> when we generate the next flow status record, we report a loss of  
>> -1.   Later,
>> when you merge the two status flow records together, the loss  
>> becomes zero.
>>
>> You won't see that too often with TCP, but you can get that kind of
>> behavior, especially when the Far Status Interval is below 1 second.
>>
>> I'm thinking that this situation is caused by a bug, where we merge  
>> an
>> ArgusTcpInit and an ArgusTcpPerf DSR together, and fail to redefine
>> the DSR to ArgusTcpPerf, but leave it as ArgusTcpInit, which of  
>> course
>> doesn't/can't have any retransmission stats.  The newest client  
>> code that is
>> on the server (refreshed yesterday) does have some addition logic
>> to make it less likely to have this problem, but I have to double/ 
>> triple
>> check to see what is actually going on.  Having data that generates  
>> the
>> problem, makes that much easier.
>>
>> This is a long topic, so keep sending questions, and we'll get a  
>> something
>> written down that may make some sense.
>>
>> Carter
>>
>>
>> On Mar 18, 2008, at 12:30 PM, Nick Diel wrote:
>>
>>> Carter,
>>>
>>> First thanks for everything you have done.  Second thanks for all  
>>> this great info, it as been extremely helpful as I learn Argus.   
>>> We will need a wiki page just for all in the info you have given  
>>> so far.
>>>
>>> Hopefully Stew can anonymize the data, so you can shed some light  
>>> on what is going on.
>>>
>>> Can you tell me/the rest of the list a little bit more how  
>>> racluster handles Ip attributes and TCP attributes.  For instance,  
>>> if racluster is merging based on flow keys, will it attempt to  
>>> find additional retransmitted packets.  For example if a singleton  
>>> is actually a retransmitted packet for another non-singleton,  
>>> would racluster detect that and increase the loss count after they  
>>> are merged together?
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>> Carter Bullard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Gentlemen,
>>>> Well, racluster() does modify the IP attributes and TCP  
>>>> attributes based
>>>> on the records that are being merged together.   Because you are  
>>>> modifying
>>>> the flow key, and then merging data together, some data maybe  
>>>> ignored.
>>>>
>>>> As an example, If you merge a record that is a singleton with a  
>>>> non-singleton,
>>>> your resulting merged result may/could retain some singleton  
>>>> properties.  A
>>>> singleton is a flow with only one packet.  One of the properties  
>>>> of a singleton
>>>> is that it doesn't have any duration, and it also doesn't have  
>>>> any loss.
>>>> Now, if you merge a singleton with a non-singleton you get a non- 
>>>> singleton
>>>> as the result, so losing things like loss would, of course, be a  
>>>> bug.
>>>>
>>>> The best solution is to see if you can ranonymize() the data, and  
>>>> get the
>>>> same graph.  You could share that "primitive" data?
>>>>
>>>> Primitive data is the set pf original flow records directly from  
>>>> argus().
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>> Carter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 18, 2008, at 12:02 AM, Stewart Gray wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's right, I'll show the example I'm working with:
>>>>>
>>>>> ra -m proto -s loss -r packet-dump-2008-03-18_08\:28.arg - tcp |  
>>>>> awk '{total=total+$1;} END {print total;}'
>>>>> 33244
>>>>>
>>>>> racluster -m proto -s loss -r packet-dump-2008-03-18_08\:28.arg  
>>>>> - tcp
>>>>> 0
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately I'm not able to distribute the data I'm working  
>>>>> with - it's customers flow logs. I'll see if I can replicate the  
>>>>> issues @ home so I can provide something to work with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Stew
>>>>> From: Nick Diel [mailto:ndiel at engr.colostate.edu]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 March 2008 4:53 p.m.
>>>>> To: Carter Bullard
>>>>> Cc: Stewart Gray; Argus
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARGUS] [Argus] Re: Packet Loss with racluster
>>>>>
>>>>> Carter,
>>>>>
>>>>> What you are saying makes sense (I think), but I think there is  
>>>>> something else going on here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stew had a 2 minute file.  If he used ra to look at just this  
>>>>> file he would see individual records that had positive values  
>>>>> for loss packet count.  Then he used racluster to merge all  
>>>>> status flow records and it reported 0 loss packets.  I think  
>>>>> Stew was doing this one file at a time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Basically if a single file (regardless how it was created) has  
>>>>> any status flows with a positive packet loss count, shouldn't  
>>>>> racluster be able to report this total for this file?
>>>>>
>>>>> ra -s loss -r argus.arg - tcp | awk '{total=total+$1;} END  
>>>>> {print total;}'  >0
>>>>> racluster -m proto -s loss -r argus.arg - tcp  = 0
>>>>>
>>>>> I may be missing something, but this was how I interpreted  
>>>>> Stew's problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick
>>>>>
>>>>> Carter Bullard wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Guys,
>>>>>> There are a lot of things going on that can affect the  
>>>>>> "distribution" of numbers
>>>>>> on a time series graph, when using flow data.  Flows are not  
>>>>>> fixed length samples
>>>>>> of network activity, and so you have to do some statistical  
>>>>>> mods to make the data
>>>>>> generally useful.    Programs like rasplit() and rabins() are  
>>>>>> critical to distributing
>>>>>> load, rate, packet numbers, loss numbers, jitter, interpackt  
>>>>>> arrival times, etc...
>>>>>> correctly into timed bins.  Without the use of either rasplit()  
>>>>>> or rabins(), which
>>>>>> are split/aggregate tools, you can end up with flows that are  
>>>>>> longer than the
>>>>>> time interval its suppose to represent, which skews the data in  
>>>>>> weird ways, and
>>>>>> can generate bins with no data in them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Loss doesn't have to be constant, and so the drop outs may  
>>>>>> actually be real.
>>>>>> And the there are no guarantees that there are actually tcp  
>>>>>> connections during
>>>>>> those intervals (no TCP, no loss), so we have to look at the  
>>>>>> data to see if there
>>>>>> is anything wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Remember, flows from argus() are as long as the  
>>>>>> ARGUS_FAR_STATUS_INTERVAL.
>>>>>> A flow that starts at 1:59:59.999999, will be tallied in the  
>>>>>> 1:58:00 - 2:00:00 bin, even
>>>>>> though its duration could significantly extend well into the  
>>>>>> 2:00:00-2:02:00 interval.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The trick is to split the data into strict time slots, and then  
>>>>>> aggregating those slots.
>>>>>> rabins() is very good at this, that is why its at the heart of  
>>>>>> ragraph().
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I can get some of the data used to generate the graph in the  
>>>>>> email, I can
>>>>>> see if using rabins() would remove the drop outs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 17, 2008, at 8:40 PM, Stewart Gray wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just feed the values into cacti, it's a base metric I can  
>>>>>>> use for spotting anomalies. Even if it's not 100% accurate,  
>>>>>>> the accuracy should be pretty consistent even if argus  
>>>>>>> inflates/deflates the figure slightly on files which have been  
>>>>>>> sliced up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm running this argus instance on a busy section of our  
>>>>>>> network and there is a constant flow of between 80-140mb/s. I  
>>>>>>> ran the rate/load/loss command and got got:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 17949.785637 94528448 0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can see the blips this morning. The file is actually split  
>>>>>>> every 2mins on this particular box.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <Outlook.jpg>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a bit unusual, if I run 'ra -m proto -s loss -r argus.arg  
>>>>>>> - tcp' there are quite a number of losses/retransmits. Might  
>>>>>>> be an issue with how racluster is aggregating these?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stew
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Nick Diel [mailto:ndiel at engr.colostate.edu]
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 March 2008 12:10 p.m.
>>>>>>> To: Stewart Gray
>>>>>>> Cc: Argus
>>>>>>> Subject: [Argus] Re: Packet Loss with racluster
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stew,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the first question is what are you using this number  
>>>>>>> for.  If you are just using it as an indicator of congestion  
>>>>>>> or other network problems then the 5 minute boundary will most  
>>>>>>> likely not be a problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe Argus just counts the number of retransmitted  
>>>>>>> packets to get a loss/drop count, I don't think it is doing  
>>>>>>> any triple duplicate ack or tcp timeout checks (if I am wrong,  
>>>>>>> someone please say so).  Since retransmissions will occur in a  
>>>>>>> time window of a few seconds, you should capture most  
>>>>>>> retransmitted packets in your 5 minute boundaries.  So even if  
>>>>>>> a flow cross that boundary, you still have a good chance of  
>>>>>>> counting retransmitted packets correctly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For cases you are receiving a count of 0, I would look at  
>>>>>>> packet rate and bit rate, it is possible the link just doesn't  
>>>>>>> have much traffic on it at that time. racluster -m proto -s  
>>>>>>> rate load loss -r argus.arg - tcp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Though I did notice something unusual on my end.  The command  
>>>>>>> I gave you, should be a strong estimate, but doesn't account  
>>>>>>> for retransmitted packets over status flow boundaries within  
>>>>>>> the file (though same argument above applies).  So to get an  
>>>>>>> exact count on the file (assuming racluster reanalyzes the  
>>>>>>> status flow records for retransmissions) you would need  
>>>>>>> something like: racluster -r argus.arg -w - - tcp | racluster - 
>>>>>>> m proto -s loss -r - (first merge status flow records, then  
>>>>>>> count retransmitted packets).  Though this is the output I get:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> racluster -m proto -s loss -r argus.out - tcp
>>>>>>>      62521
>>>>>>> racluster -r argus.out -w - - tcp | racluster -m proto -s loss  
>>>>>>> -r -
>>>>>>>      60047
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At a minimum I would expect the numbers to stay the same, no  
>>>>>>> retransmitted packets crossed any status flows or racluster  
>>>>>>> doesn't try to find any new retransmitted packets.  The number  
>>>>>>> going down doesn't make any sense to me.  Maybe someone can  
>>>>>>> explain what is going on to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nick[
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stewart Gray wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey Guys,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How does racluster handle argus files which have been  
>>>>>>>> periodically split, when producing packet loss statistics? My  
>>>>>>>> monitoring machine rotates the argus file every 5minutes.  
>>>>>>>> When using the following command, how skewed are the figures  
>>>>>>>> going to be as a result of having an incomplete argus file  
>>>>>>>> (ie connections that were current when the log file was  
>>>>>>>> rotated).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm also note than sometimes the resulting figure is 0. It  
>>>>>>>> only seems to do this in about 1/10 argus files I run the  
>>>>>>>> command at.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> racluster -m proto -s loss -r argus.arg - tcp
>>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> racluster -m proto -s loss -r argus.arg - tcp
>>>>>>>> 33036
>>>>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stew
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Nick Diel [mailto:ndiel at engr.colostate.edu]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 March 2008 10:24 a.m.
>>>>>>>> To: Stewart Gray
>>>>>>>> Cc: Argus
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARGUS] Cheat sheet premiere
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How about:
>>>>>>>> racluster -m proto -s loss -r argus.arg - tcp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This should merge all records based on protocol (in this case  
>>>>>>>> only tcp because of the filter) and then print the loss  
>>>>>>>> column of all merged records.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stewart Gray wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> awesome, That's a really good start. I've already been  
>>>>>>>>> playing with a few of the options I hadn't toyed with  
>>>>>>>>> before :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is there an easy way to generate a raw count of packets loss/ 
>>>>>>>>> retransmitted rather than having it graphed?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I figure we start with:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> racluster -s loss -r argus.arg -w -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How are the figured totaled? Do we pipe it to rasort or ra?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stewart
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Stéphane Peters [mailto:stephane.peters at forem.be]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 8 March 2008 11:06 a.m.
>>>>>>>>> To: Carter Bullard
>>>>>>>>> Cc: Stewart Gray; Argus
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Re: [ARGUS] Cheat sheet premiere
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Carter,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would love to see such a sheet in the distribution,
>>>>>>>>> and I also was hoping that you could check,
>>>>>>>>> if those examples made sense or were appropriate.
>>>>>>>>> So please go on !
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some cosmetic work could be done too;
>>>>>>>>> for example to use everywhere some "standard" parameters  
>>>>>>>>> like this one :
>>>>>>>>>     file=argus-eth1.out
>>>>>>>>>     ra -r $file
>>>>>>>>> so it is easy to paste the line "as is".
>>>>>>>>> without forgetting the shell escapes ( \$srcid) like in:
>>>>>>>>>     rasplit -S $argushost  -M 1d -w /path/argus-\$srcid.%Y. 
>>>>>>>>> %m.%d.log
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By the way, as another example given to the list, here are 3  
>>>>>>>>> scripts I use.
>>>>>>>>> The PATH vars permit to have a nicer ps(1) output.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> start-argus
>>>>>>>>>> #!/bin/sh
>>>>>>>>>> interf=eth1
>>>>>>>>>> PATH=/sbin ifconfig $interf | grep UP || PATH=/sbin  
>>>>>>>>>> ifconfig $interf up
>>>>>>>>>> PATH=/usr/local/sbin argus -d -i $interf -e `hostname` -P  
>>>>>>>>>> 561 -U128 -mRS 30 -w argus-eth1.out
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> rotate:
>>>>>>>>>> #!/bin/sh
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> # Rotates server log files, without affecting users who may  
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> # connected to the server.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> # This can be run as a cron script
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DATE=`date +%Y-%m%d-%H%M`
>>>>>>>>>> LOGS='argus-eth1.out'
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  for i in $LOGS; do
>>>>>>>>>>    if [ -f $i ]; then
>>>>>>>>>>      mv $i $i.$DATE
>>>>>>>>>>      gzip -9 $i.$DATE
>>>>>>>>>>    fi
>>>>>>>>>>  done
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> rotate-daily
>>>>>>>>>> #!/bin/sh
>>>>>>>>>> ./rotate
>>>>>>>>>> sleep 60 # sometimes the preceding command finishes too early
>>>>>>>>>> echo ./rotate-daily | at 0000 > /tmp/rotate-daily.log
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I use at(1) instead of cron(8) to cut the files closer to  
>>>>>>>>> midnight.,
>>>>>>>>> but rastream(1)'s extended "-w" option seems promising.
>>>>>>>>> A better solution could be to use argus(8) to preprocess the  
>>>>>>>>> flows,
>>>>>>>>> and rastream(1). to write, "rotate" and compress the files.
>>>>>>>>> Another thread, perhaps.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Carter Bullard wrote :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hey Stephane,
>>>>>>>>>> This is great!!!!  I'll put this in the distribution, if  
>>>>>>>>>> you don't mind!!!!
>>>>>>>>>> And I'll also go through it to make sure that any changes  
>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>>> code actually don't break this, and I can add some of the  
>>>>>>>>>> ones
>>>>>>>>>> that I do.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So Russell is asking for a wiki, and we already have one at:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vorant.com/nsmwiki/index.php?title=Argus
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Carter
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Stéphane Peters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Stewart,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I also think that a cheat sheet would be nice !
>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a good occasion to show mine...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please note, most of the stuff has been collected right  
>>>>>>>>>>> from this argus list,
>>>>>>>>>>> so hopefully, you shouldn't browse all the (numerous) past  
>>>>>>>>>>> messages.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Any suggestions ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> flow filtering on certain port range:
>>>>>>>>>>>    ra -r file - dst port \( gt 1024 and lt 2048 \)
>>>>>>>>>>> (...)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Stewart Gray a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> awesome, that's more like what I was after :) Thanks for  
>>>>>>>>>>>> your help
>>>>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As I mentioned earlier, I reckon it'd be neat to have  
>>>>>>>>>>>> some sort of cheat
>>>>>>>>>>>> sheet for doing common tasks. I bet there's lot's of  
>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff you know that
>>>>>>>>>>>> others don't, having written the application yourself. I  
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't know what
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>> Stephane.Peters at forem.be, Postmaster at forem.be
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>> Stephane.Peters at forem.be
>>>>>>>>> #####################################################################################
>>>>>>>>> Important: This electronic message and attachments (if any)  
>>>>>>>>> are confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are  
>>>>>>>>> not the intended recipient do not copy, disclose or use the  
>>>>>>>>> contents in any way. Please let us know by return e-mail  
>>>>>>>>> immediately and then destroy this message.
>>>>>>>>> #####################################################################################
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> #####################################################################################
>>>>>>>> Important: This electronic message and attachments (if any)  
>>>>>>>> are confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are  
>>>>>>>> not the intended recipient do not copy, disclose or use the  
>>>>>>>> contents in any way. Please let us know by return e-mail  
>>>>>>>> immediately and then destroy this message.
>>>>>>>> #####################################################################################
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #####################################################################################
>>>>>>> Important: This electronic message and attachments (if any)  
>>>>>>> are confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not  
>>>>>>> the intended recipient do not copy, disclose or use the  
>>>>>>> contents in any way. Please let us know by return e-mail  
>>>>>>> immediately and then destroy this message.
>>>>>>> #####################################################################################
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carter Bullard
>>>>>> CEO/President
>>>>>> QoSient, LLC
>>>>>> 150 E. 57th Street Suite 12D
>>>>>> New York, New York 10022
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +1 212 588-9133 Phone
>>>>>> +1 212 588-9134 Fax
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> #####################################################################################
>>>>> Important: This electronic message and attachments (if any) are  
>>>>> confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the  
>>>>> intended recipient do not copy, disclose or use the contents in  
>>>>> any way. Please let us know by return e-mail immediately and  
>>>>> then destroy this message.
>>>>> #####################################################################################
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Carter Bullard
CEO/President
QoSient, LLC
150 E. 57th Street Suite 12D
New York, New York 10022

+1 212 588-9133 Phone
+1 212 588-9134 Fax



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