[Retros] Natch 3.0 beta is out
Paulo Peccin
ppeccin at gmail.com
Fri Jul 29 16:01:58 EDT 2016
Oh, ok!
Thanks
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 4:38 PM, Pascal Wassong <pascal.wassong at free.fr>
wrote:
>
> The links are correct, I tested them. You should maybe copy/paste the
> whole link, instead of just clicking on it. When I try to click on it,
> the last part, containing the problem number, is ignored.
>
> If it still doesn't work, go to the home page of the site
> http://pdb.dieschwalbe.de and enter the search expression, for example
> PROBID='P0002056'
>
> >>>>> "Paulo" == Paulo Peccin <ppeccin at gmail.com> writes:
>
> Paulo> The links don't work! Paulo
>
> Paulo> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Pascal Wassong
> Paulo> <pascal.wassong at free.fr>
> Paulo> wrote:
>
> >> Paulo,
> >>
> >> I made a quick search in the online retrograde database. I found a
> >> mate in 2, where black cannot castle dating back to 1859. By Sam
> >> Loyd of course:
> >> http://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=PROBID='P0002056'
> >>
> >> Another problem, from year 1915, more in the spirit of your
> >> problem, by another great composer of the retrograde analysis
> >> earlier times, Thomas R. Dawson:
> >> http://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=PROBID='P0001326'
> >>
> >> I made the search from the page http://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/ and
> >> entered the following expression : STIP='#2' and G='retro' and
> >> K='Cant Castler'
> >>
> >> To learn how to write expressions, you should use the examples
> >> page. This database is the most accurate online base for
> >> retrograde problems.
> >>
> >> Have fun exploring the database. Pascal
> >>
> >>
> >> >>>>> "Paulo" == Paulo Peccin <ppeccin at gmail.com> writes:
> >>
> Paulo> Ok, I see... :-) I'm very newbie to all this retro analysis,
> Paulo> and not very literate to chess in general.
> >>
> Paulo> That is a problem a friend of mine and I have invented, without
> Paulo> even knowing there was an established "retro" type of problems.
> >>
> Paulo> I have written a solution with proof in english for the
> Paulo> problem, but I am just trying to find a means to "prove the
> Paulo> proof", with some kind of computer help...
> >>
> Paulo> Thanks anyway! Paulo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> Paulo> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Pascal Wassong
> Paulo> <pascal.wassong at free.fr>
> Paulo> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Hi again :)
> >> >>
> >> >> no, Natch cannot help. This is a classical retro, not a
> >> shortest >> proof game. Natch is absolutely not done to answer
> >> your question.
> >> >>
> >> >> The number of games to reach your position with the shortest
> >> number >> of moves are by millions. Even if Natch would give all
> >> these games >> (which would take years), you still would have to
> >> check that in all >> games, the bK has moved.
> >> >>
> >> >> It is easy (at least for me !) to see that in your position, the
> >> bK >> must have moved, so the black castling is illegal in this
> >> position. >> The proof is not very complicated to write down in
> >> plain english. >> You should do it, as this is generally printed
> >> with the solution.
> >> >>
> >> >> There are many problems of this kind already existing. This is
> >> a >> very old trick, maybe 100 years old.
> >> >>
> >> >> Pascal
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >>>>> "Paulo" == Paulo Peccin <ppeccin at gmail.com> writes:
> >> >>
> Paulo> That is my initial position:
> Paulo> 4k2r/pp2p1p1/P7/4Np2/1B4Q1/P2NP1n1/1PbP3q/K2R3R
> >> >>
> Paulo> The idea is to prove that the Black King has moved and cannot
> Paulo> castle anymore. Can Natch help in any means?
> >> >>
> Paulo> Thanks,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> Paulo> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Pascal Wassong
> Paulo> <pascal.wassong at free.fr>
> Paulo> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >> Hi Paulo,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Natch is absolutely not done to solve this kind of problems.
> >> It >> >> will take way too much time, and spit out way too much >>
> >> solutions.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Checking if your initial position is legal is easy for
> >> anybody >> used >> to solve retrograde problems. Finding the
> >> shortest proof >> game to >> your position is probably not
> >> interesting at all. About >> 80 or 100 >> years ago, this was
> >> sometimes done to show that a >> position is >> legal. Nowadays,
> >> nobody does it anymore.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If you intend to publish your problem, the section editor
> >> where >> you >> will send it will be able to tell you if your
> >> position is >> legal or >> not.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Pascal
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>>>> "Paulo" == Paulo Peccin <ppeccin at gmail.com> writes:
> >> >> >>
> Paulo> Its for a problem I invented. Its a "mate in 2" problem that
> Paulo> requires retro analysis, and I want to check if the starting
> Paulo> position is really reachable in a normal valid game. So I don't
> Paulo> really know how many moves it would require to get there. I
> Paulo> want to find the minimum number of moves possible.
> >> >> >>
> Paulo> Thanks, Paulo
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> Paulo> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Pascal Wassong
> Paulo> <pascal.wassong at free.fr>
> Paulo> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Hello,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> thank you for using iNatch and Natch !
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> For iNatch, the version 0.7 has been created for 32 bits
> >> >> >> machines, >> this is a bit outdated. I suggest using the
> >> previous >> >> version >> 0.6.2, which is a full java version,
> >> independant from >> 32 >> bits or 64 >> bits. Many users (me
> >> included) prefer the >> 0.6.2 >> version.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> For Natch, you must provide the number of moves. It is >>
> >> strange >> to >> want to try Natch on a position without knowing >>
> >> the minimum >> number >> of moves needed to reach it. You could >>
> >> test the position >> while >> increasing the number of moves at >>
> >> each try.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Best wishes, Pascal
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>> "Paulo" == Paulo Peccin <ppeccin at gmail.com> writes:
> >> >> >> >>
> Paulo> Tried to run iNatch, but it does not start in my machine. Java8
> Paulo> installed. The logs say:
> >> >> >> >>
> Paulo> !ENTRY org.eclipse.osgi 4 0 2016-07-29 14:45:04.760 !MESSAGE
> Paulo> Application error !STACK 1 java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: no
> Paulo> swt-win32-3320 or swt-win32 in swt.library.path,
> Paulo> java.libary.path or the jar file
> >> >> >> >>
> Paulo> Also, can I use Natch to find a solution to a position, but I
> Paulo> don't know how many moves it would take to get to that
> Paulo> position?
> >> >> >> >>
> Paulo> Thanks, Paulo
> >> >> >> >>
> Paulo> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Pascal Wassong
> Paulo> <pascal.wassong at free.fr>
> Paulo> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Hello all,
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> 19 years after the first version, 7 years after the
> >> latest >> >> >> version, >> a new version of Natch is out. It is
> >> version 3.0 >> beta. >> >> You can >> download it from
> >> http://Natch.free.fr .
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Previous version already computed the order of some
> >> moves. >> >> This >> >> was used to eliminate position having
> >> cycles in it. >> For >> example >> >> Pa2-a8=N-b6*Pa7 and Pa7xb6.
> >> These move orders >> found >> for a >> position >> are now used
> >> when searching for the >> moves. >> For >> example, if black >>
> >> must play Rh8-e8-e3-c3 and >> white >> Pe2-e4, the >> wPe2 won't be
> >> allowed >> to move before the >> black >> rook arrived at >> c3.
> >> This improvement >> increase the >> speed of >> resolution of many
> >> >> problems, and makes the >> >> --watch (-k for >> short) preaty
> >> useless.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Many more move orders are also found.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> A bug has been corrected, where some solutions where
> >> not >> >> found.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> A bug has been corrected on Mac, which made the program
> >> >> crash >> >> when >> the hash-tables where full. I was surprised
> >> to >> learn >> about >> this >> problem so late.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> There are also minor changes in the output file and
> >> when >> >> using >> the >> visual option.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> More details about this new version are available in
> >> the >> NEWS >> >> file >> available when you download the beta
> >> version.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> There were many bugs in the numerous alpha version
> >> while >> >> >> developing >> this 3.0 version, which have been
> >> found by the >> >> >> testers, mainly >> Michel Caillaud and
> >> Thierry Le Gleuher. >> Thanks >> >> to them and to the >> other
> >> testers.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> There may still be bugs in this version. If you find
> >> one, >> >> don't >> >> hesitate to send it to me. The informations
> >> needed >> >> are: - the >> >> proof game, being as short as
> >> possible, that >> >> reproduces the bug; >> - >> the expected
> >> solution; - the number of >> >> the position where the >> bug >>
> >> occurs, if needed; - a clear >> >> description of what is going >>
> >> wrong.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> The precompiled version for windows is a 64 bits
> >> version. >> I >> >> could >> also prepare a 32 bits windows
> >> version, if enough >> >> people >> are >> interested.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Happy composing, Pascal >> >> >> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ Retros mailing list
> >> >> >> >> >> Retros at janko.at >> >> >>
> >> https://pairlist1.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/retros
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Retros >>
> >> mailing >> list >> Retros at janko.at >> >>
> >> https://pairlist1.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/retros
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Retros
> >> mailing >> list >> Retros at janko.at >>
> >> https://pairlist1.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/retros
> >> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________ Retros mailing
> >> list >> Retros at janko.at
> >> https://pairlist1.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/retros
> >> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ Retros mailing list
> >> Retros at janko.at https://pairlist1.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/retros
> >>
> _______________________________________________
> Retros mailing list
> Retros at janko.at
> https://pairlist1.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/retros
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist1.pair.net/pipermail/retros/attachments/20160729/ce125a81/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Retros
mailing list