[Jacob-list] when things go wrong
Elizabeth Bell
hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us
Wed May 2 16:31:27 EDT 2012
joy, sorry you had such a bad first time lambing experience. Hopefully this will be it for a while, getting it out of the way early. Fortunately we have a state diagnostic lab close by so when something like that happens I will take the animal for necropsy. I wonder if mom just had some type of infection? I have never had this happen to a Jacob but have had it happen with another breed ewe and I call it milk fever, although may not be the appropriate term. Everything seemed ok for the first 24 hours (with mom at least) and then she got real lethargic and wouldn't eat. So I syringed calcium gluconate into her abdominal cavity ( a little scary but I didn't want to lose her) and she perked up. Had to do it several times over a 24 hour period until her calcium balance was corrected. Lambs can go pretty quickly if things aren't right. I had one (again not a Jacob) injured by its mom and it couldn't get up so it developed pnuemonia and died fairly quickly. Just so you know that there can be problems with Jacobs here, one of my first ewes just would not feed her babies. She would clean them and talk to them but when either of them went to nurse she freaked out. So i started them on the bottle right away although I did hold mom for about a week hoping she would take them but she never did. Her little ewe lamb grew up to be a good mom and a friendly ewe. She did this 2 years in a row so it wasn't just first time and she didn't seem to have mastitis.
Good luck with the little box baby. They are really cute little bottle babies.
Elizabeth Bell
hobbyknobfarm at main.nc.us
On May 2, 2012, at 11:18 AM, jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com wrote:
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> 1. Re: When things go wrong... they can go very, very
> wrong...... (Jennifer)
> 2. Re: When things go wrong... they can go very, very
> wrong...... (joy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 09:59:42 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Jennifer <gotothewhip at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] When things go wrong... they can go very,
> very wrong......
> To: spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com, jspidle1 at yahoo.com
> Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Message-ID: <8CEF682F4A4BE75-12E4-6780F at webmail-m013.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> I think Marie is on the right thought path here.
>
> I would also put on the table, for the Adult ewe, that perhaps the ewe had a tear.. Sometimes a lamb will punch thry the lining during delivery, and the end result for the ewe is not good.
>
> Second guessing what to do diferently is futile. Often oddball cases like this are not something you will ever see again.
>
> How is the ewe lamb doing now? Standing to take a bottle yet?
>
> Jennifer Tucker
> Moose Mtn Ranch
> Bennett, CO
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: spotted_sheep <spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com>
> To: joy <jspidle1 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Sent: Wed, May 2, 2012 6:14 am
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] When things go wrong... they can go very, very wrong......
>
>
> Your ewe lamb has white muscle disease most likely. Give her 1cc of BOSE (vitamin E + selenium) and she should come around faster, if not give her up to another 1cc, but not much more than that or you'll OD her.
>
> The ram probably starved/was hypothermic... That is a hard decision even for seasoned shepherds...pull the lamb and bottle feed it and maybe save it, but then have to raise it yourself and leave the ewe all alone. Or leave the lamb with the ewe and hope she'll come around and raise it, because lambs always do better with mom. I've "learned" that lesson many times and every time I think to myself "next time I'll just pull the lamb and be sure it's ok..." and then it happens again...It is just so hard to pull a lamb off it's mother.
>
> Now the ewe is a harder case... Probably either a retained placenta, or a retained third lamb (either long dead or recently dead) both of which would cause the pushing, fever and eventually death. BUT it could have been something else as well, there is no telling for sure without a necropsy, even then you might not find anything...
>
> Was mom a first time mother? That might explain her not letting her lambs nurse, sometimes first time mothers do alright cleaning and birthing, but they dance around and around when lambs try to nurse because they don't understand what they are doing back there (or because they aren't done cleaning/checking lamb out). Or it could have just been that she knew something was wrong with the lambs and/or her.
>
> I'm sorry you had such a rough start to lambing, it'll get better.
>
> Marie
> Spot Hollow Farm
>
> --- jspidle1 at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> From: joy <jspidle1 at yahoo.com>
> To: "jacob-list at jacobsheep.com" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Subject: [Jacob-list] When things go wrong... they can go very, very wrong......
> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 04:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
> I am a newbie at lambing so I want to use this as a learning experience.
>
> On Friday I returned home from work to a pair of newborn lambs (a ram & a
> ewe). The ewe was still a bit wet but cleaned off. Their mom seemed very
> attentive licking them and talking to them. I didn't want to interfere so I
> watched. The boy was up and about trying to nurse... the ewe still hadn't
> gotten to her feet ...... 2 hours had passed so I attempted to at least get
> her to nurse a little, mom was having none of it so I decided to milk her
> out enough to bottle feed the ewe lamb to at least get some colostrums in
> her. I gave her about 4 ozs and continued to watch the mom's interactions
> with the lambs. It became apparent she was not allowing the ram lamb to
> nurse despite his efforts.... so I milked her a little more and made sure he
> had some milk. At the 5 hr mark the ewe lamb still did not have the strength
> to get up, the weather was miserable (rain & chilly) The ewe lamb was cold
> so I decide to milk mom again and take the little girl in and put her under
> a heat lamp. She was eating well but still couldn't stand. A 03:00 I checked
> on her again, she still was not able to stand.... the boy was curled up with
> his mom doing ok.
> On Saturday when I checked the mom was still not allowing the boy to nurse,
> he would just about get latched on and then she would move..... so
> frustrating. So I milked her and fed them both several times throughout the
> day I was hoping by leaving the boy with her she would get the idea.... she
> did not object to being milked just the babies nursing. I keep a close eye
> on them throughout the day the girl still unable to stand.... she was
> getting stronger at least could make it to her knees just not to stand, at
> the 26 hr mark she finally made it to her feet. The boy was still with his
> mom but she still would not allow his to nurse. I fed him and kept an eye on
> him. The night was chilly and rainy again. I checked him around 22:00 and he
> was chilled so I brought him in under the lamp too. At 03:00 when I checked
> him he had passed.
> On Sunday the mom seemed a bit depressed / not her normal self. She refused
> to eat and just stared at the wall. Her temp was a bit elevated but nothing
> real bad (104) but I decided to give her a does o penicillin just to be
> safe. At around 18:00 I noticed the mom lying down in the stall and she
> appeared to be in labor again. She pushed very hard a few time expelling
> allot of poop and then started thrashing and let out a cry and then .....she
> stopped breathing her heart was beating and I checked her pupil for reflex
> .... (she jumped and scared the crap out of me) she still was not
> breathing.... I checked her pupil again and they were fixed and dilated with
> no response ......... then her heart stopped.......... I'm in total
> disbelief at this point...... What the ____________?????????
> So, now the question I need answered from you all that have been doing this
> for a while is....... What could I / should I have done differently???????
> Help me understand please......................
>
> Sorry the post was so long...
> Thanks for any help you can give me.
>
> joy
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & FiberworksJacob-list at jacobsheep.comhttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>
>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 08:18:32 -0700 (PDT)
> From: joy <jspidle1 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] When things go wrong... they can go very,
> very wrong......
> To: Jennifer <gotothewhip at aol.com>, "jacob-list at jacobsheep.com"
> <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Message-ID:
> <1335971912.73193.YahooMailNeo at web160603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Yes, the mother was a first time mom. :-( So sad.....
> The ewe lamb is doing well so far. I've been keeping her inside in a box at night.... i call her my "Lamb in a box") cause the minuite she hears me she pops her head up over the box edge and start crying for a bottle. It's too cute!.... She is standing for her bottle and getting around fine... she was even trying to run and jump last night.??I ran out of her moms milk on Monday so her poo was a bit loose with the transition to milk formula but that?seems to be better now. I'm keeping my fingers crossed she will survive........
>
> From: Jennifer <gotothewhip at aol.com>
> To: spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com; jspidle1 at yahoo.com
> Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 9:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] When things go wrong... they can go very, very wrong......
>
>
> I think Marie is on the right thought path here.
>
> I would also put on the table, for the Adult ewe, that perhaps the ewe had a tear.. Sometimes a lamb will punch thry the lining during delivery, and the end result for the ewe is not good.
>
> Second guessing what to do diferently is futile.? Often oddball cases like this are not something you will ever see again.
>
> How is the ewe lamb doing now?? Standing to take a bottle yet?
>
> Jennifer Tucker
> Moose Mtn Ranch
> Bennett, CO
> -----Original Message-----
> From: spotted_sheep <spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com>
> To: joy <jspidle1 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Sent: Wed, May 2, 2012 6:14 am
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] When things go wrong... they can go very, very wrong......
>
>
> Your ewe lamb has white muscle disease most likely. Give her 1cc of BOSE (vitamin E + selenium) and she should come around faster, if not give her up to another 1cc, but not much more than that or you'll OD her.
>
> The ram probably starved/was hypothermic... That is a hard decision even for seasoned shepherds...pull the lamb and bottle feed it and maybe save it, but then have to raise it yourself and leave the ewe all alone. Or leave the lamb with the ewe and hope she'll come around and raise it, because lambs always do better with mom. I've "learned" that lesson many times and every time I think to myself "next time I'll just pull the lamb and be sure it's ok..." and then it happens again...It is just so hard to pull a lamb off it's mother.
>
> Now the ewe is a harder case... Probably either a retained placenta, or a retained third lamb (either long dead or recently dead) both of which would cause the pushing, fever and eventually death. BUT it could have been something else as well, there is no telling for sure without a necropsy, even then you might not find anything...
>
> Was mom a first time mother? That might explain her not letting her lambs nurse, sometimes first time mothers do alright cleaning and birthing, but they dance around and around when lambs try to nurse because they don't understand what they are doing back there (or because they aren't done cleaning/checking lamb out). Or it could have just been that she knew something was wrong with the lambs and/or her.
>
> I'm sorry you had such a rough start to lambing, it'll get better.
>
> Marie
> Spot Hollow Farm
>
> --- jspidle1 at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> From: joy <jspidle1 at yahoo.com>
> To: "jacob-list at jacobsheep.com" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
> Subject: [Jacob-list] When things go wrong... they can go very, very wrong......
> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 04:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
> I am a newbie at lambing so I want to use this as a learning experience.
> ?
> On Friday I returned home from work to a pair of newborn lambs (a ram & a
> ewe). The ewe was still a bit wet but cleaned off. Their mom seemed very
> attentive licking them and talking to them. I didn't want to interfere so I
> watched. The boy was up and about trying to nurse... the ewe still hadn't
> gotten to her feet ...... 2 hours had passed so I attempted to at least get
> her to nurse a little, mom was having none of it so I decided to milk her
> out enough to bottle feed the ewe lamb to at least get some colostrums in
> her. I gave her about 4 ozs and continued to watch the mom's interactions
> with the lambs. It became apparent she was not allowing the ram lamb to
> nurse despite his efforts.... so I milked her a little more and made sure he
> had some milk. At the 5 hr mark the ewe lamb still did not have the strength
> to get up, the weather was miserable (rain & chilly) The ewe lamb was cold
> so I decide to milk mom again and take the little girl in and put her under
> a heat lamp. She was eating well but still couldn't stand. A 03:00 I checked
> on her again, she still was not able to stand.... the boy was curled up with
> his mom doing ok.
> On Saturday when I checked the mom was still not allowing the boy to nurse,
> he would just about get latched on and then she would move..... so
> frustrating. So I milked her and fed them both several times throughout the
> day I was hoping by leaving the boy with her she would get the idea.... she
> did not object to being milked just the babies nursing. I keep a close eye
> on them throughout the day the girl still unable to stand.... she was
> getting stronger at least could make it to her knees just not to stand, at
> the 26 hr mark she finally made it to her feet. The boy was still with his
> mom but she still would not allow his to nurse. I fed him and kept an eye on
> him. The night was chilly and rainy again. I checked him around 22:00 and he
> was chilled so I brought him in under the lamp too. At 03:00 when I checked
> him he had passed.?
> On Sunday the mom seemed a bit depressed / not her normal self. She refused
> to eat and just stared at the wall. Her temp was a bit elevated but nothing
> real bad (104) but I decided to give her a does o penicillin just to be
> safe. At around 18:00 I noticed the mom lying down in the stall and she
> appeared to be in labor again. She pushed very hard a few time expelling
> allot of poop and then started thrashing and let out a cry and then .....she
> stopped breathing her heart was beating and I checked her pupil for reflex
> .... (she jumped and scared the crap out of me) she still was not
> breathing.... I checked her pupil again and they were fixed and dilated with
> no response ......... then her heart stopped.......... I'm in total
> disbelief at this point...... What the ____________?????????
> So, now the question I need answered from you all that have been doing this
> for a while is....... What could I / should I have done differently???????
> Help me understand please......................
> ?
> Sorry the post was so long...
> Thanks for any help you can give me.
> ?
> joy
> ?
> ?
> ?_______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
> ?
> This message was delivered by BlueFrog.com. For the best email, please visit http://www.bluefrog.com
>
> If you believe this message is spam, please report to abuse at bluefrog.com.
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