[Jacob-list] Jacob-list Digest, Vol 98, Issue 18

[Betty Berlenbach]

I hope you will not need to duck for cover, Gary.  I took a six month old 
ram lamb to be castrated once. My vet gave him a shot of novacaine (or 
whatever) saying as she did it, that her husband, also a vet, would laugh at 
her for doing so.  The other vet in the practice actually creates a sterile 
field, drapes it, gives anesthetic and gets out all these fancy instruments 
to "operate". Three different vets.  Another vet I know, comes out to the 
parking lot, and while you hold the animal, he slices off the bottom of the 
scrotum, snaps out the testicles and throws them over his shoulder.  Four 
different vets, four different practices.  Is there a right or wrong way?  I 
think perhaps it is important to remember that animals are creatures, too, 
who experience pain.  And, that people sometimes experience pain and don't 
bother with anesthetics for whatever reason.  For example, my husband has 
cavities filled and crowns put on without novacaine.  I think he's crazy, 
but he doesn't like needles.  HIs, however, is a CHOICE, not something 
imposed upon him by another species.  Personally, I think there are limits. 
If I bang my thumb and it hurts, I deal with it.  If my kid bangs his thumb, 
and it hurts, it gets kissed, he gets an ice cube and he deals with it. 
I've never been big on handing out bandaids to make kids feel better, or 
coddling kids and promoting having a hissy fit over a scraped knee.  THat 
said, if an animal on my property is in REAL pain, I find I have a sense of 
responsibility to do something about it.  Not tiny pain, but big pain. 
Young rams, when banded, if their mothers are about, throw themselves to the 
ground and scream, but if mother doesn't seem handy, they might sit for a 
minute.  Bring out the grain bucket, and the pain is forgotten or 
sublimated, in favor of the candy.  Any pain that can be forgotten because 
there's a lollypop offered is probably not pain that needs anesthetic.  I 
have, however, had a turkey (of all things) who went off into a swamp to set 
on eggs and came back later with poults and flystrike. Upon examination, it 
was way too advanced for her to live, and I killed her, even though I can't 
seem to bring myself to kill things, as quickly and painlessly as I could 
manage in the situation.  I don't know how much a 1 year old male hurts when 
banded or even when castrated by a vet, but it would seem to me to merit a 
little banamine or aspirin or something.  It seems to me that if we are 
doing procedures on animals, then we need to be reasonably responsible about 
pain relief as a result of the procedure.  I am always aware of the great 
continuum which exists in any sort of animal care question, and I suspect 
that most positions in the middle of the continuum can be reasonably 
defended. Those on both ends might not be as easily defended and perhaps 
might be called into question.  For example, admitting a ram to an animal 
hospital for observation and medication for two days after castration may be 
over the top.  Slicing and snapping with no medication and no pain relief 
afterwards might be under the bottom (I made that up...obviously).  However, 
I suspect there is a broad mid section of acceptable, if not desireable 
practice, and just as with the breed standard, each of us would put some 
things in desireable and others in acceptable and others of us might reverse 
some of those things, so, too with the broad band of possibilities for our 
own pain relief, pain relief for our children, and pain relief for the 
animals we opt to do procedures on or who are in pain from other 
circumstances. Thanks for bringing up this topic, Gary.  It is one we all 
need to ponder a bit.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Gary Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:30 PM
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Jacob-list Digest, Vol 98, Issue 18

Regarding banding the testes of an adult ram, I am going to throw out an
idea for consideration and then duck for cover.  I hope that I am the first
person to reply, so my reply does not appear to be directed toward another
poster.

If a 1-year-old ram is to be castrated or banded, I believe the procedure
should be undertaken by a veterinarian or other skilled individual who will
apply appropriate anesthesia during the procedure and analgesics to relieve
pain during early recovery.  A 1-year-old ram can be banded without these
precautions, and he is likely to survive the procedure.  Nonetheless, he
will carry with him a lot of dead and necrotic tissue, making the likelihood
of complications greater than for a young ram.  Despite that he can be
restrained and a band applied, should we carry out the procedure this way?
Animal agriculture, including the sheep industry, should evaluate its
traditional practices and decide which in 2012 can be defended and which
should be discontinued or modified.  If we do not make these decisions for
ourselves, decisions will be made for us and perhaps not in our favor (e.g.,
California's ban on tail docking in dairy cattle).

I believe the same principle applies to docking of adult sheep, a subject
that comes up on Jacob-list from time to time.  Although we can restrain an
adult sheep and apply a band to its tail, should we do so unless an effort
is made to relieve pain immediately after the band is applied.  Sheep are
stoic and will tolerate a lot of what's done to them; this is not the same
as 'it doesn't seem to hurt them that much.'

For the record, I was born and raised a farm boy and have been involved in
animal agriculture my entire (long) life.  I come at this question from what
I believe is good for animal agriculture, not from what our urban friends or
animal activists might think is good for our animals.

-----Original Message-----
From: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com
[mailto:jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com] On Behalf Of
jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:15 PM
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Subject: Jacob-list Digest, Vol 98, Issue 18

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Today's Topics:

   1. another question (tlund at eclipsebordercollies.com)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 16:10:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "tlund at eclipsebordercollies.com"
<tlund at eclipsebordercollies.com>
Subject: [Jacob-list] another question
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Message-ID:

<414042568.113113.1340050243964.JavaMail.open-xchange at email.1and1.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I have a 4 horned petite ram (which is why I want to wether him) what is the
latest age to band them?  I left him intact to see if he would gain any size
-
nope just his horns.  He is a very small ram.  He would have turned a year
now.
Is it to late to band him?  Or should I just have him slaughtered for meat?

Thanks in advance and have a great day.

Tashia Lund
Eclipse Border Collies
955 Highway 81 NE
Cummings ND 58223-9552
www.eclipsebordercollies.com
701-330-3195

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