[Jacob-list] Black Jacobs!

Carl Fosbrink fourhornfarm at frontier.com
Thu Aug 9 15:31:47 EDT 2012

Zach,

There is certainly nothing wrong with darker Jacobs as long as they are less than 85% dark and have a spotting pattern. You like the darker Jacobs and I like a little lighter Jacob and here is my reason. I like the separated spots and well defined spots and you can get those better on a 40% to 30% dark Jacob. Another reason I like the lighter Jacob is because of the wool. I can sell more white wool because it can be used natural or dyed to whatever color the customer wants.
With that said my main objective is preserving the breed and improving my flock as much as possible. I try to breed with the whole Jacob in mind and put conformation, spotting pattern, horns, hardiness and fleece all as breeding concerns. My personal likes are large symmetrical horns, preferably 4H, and the black muzzles and feet and knee and hock spots. You can see some of my Jacobs at www.4hornfarm.com. I haven't gotten this year's lambs up yet, but am working on it.

Carl


From: Zach Oaster
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 1:36 PM
To: Carl Fosbrink
Cc: JacobList
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Black Jacobs!


"Too dark" has been mentioned several times, but I think it is important to point out that breeding for extreme lightness is also a fault. Jacobs are a naturally black sheep with white spots, so a very dark sheep isn't particularly unnatural... given that if you're registering them you should cull outside the boundaries set forth by JSBA, etc. Personally, I find the leaning-dark animals preferable to the leaning-light (just a personal thing), but in my experience I've had to cull otherwise perfect rams for being too light far more often than for being too dark.


^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Zach Oaster
zach at fattoaster.com
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Visit Zach & Lindsay's farm blog: http://www.fattoasterfarm.com
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^



On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Carl Fosbrink <fourhornfarm at frontier.com> wrote:

I know of high letter Jacobs that weren't culled very heavily that have thrown some dark lambs so you are correct that just the letter doesn't mean as much as how you have selected your breeding stock. Some people also select for different things in their breeders, but should always put the breed traits first. I am not advocating that you register every lamb. I only register the ones I keep as breeders or sell as breeders. 80% of my lambs are sold for meat because I am very particular about what I keep or sell for breeders. I realize the registration process is quite lengthy and that is why I give customers a copy of the registration application that I send in. You have to do what you think is best for your situation. Good luck to you and I hope you get more people buying your Jacobs.

From: spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 6:53 PM
To: Carl Fosbrink
Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com ; oliveoyl_123 at hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Black Jacobs!


But of course ; ) Someone (like me?) just has to skip one generation to mess up the flock letter, even if the animal has a long recorded pedigree : ) Or you can have animals that have been recorded but not registered for years, turning out premium lambs who will only be FF sheep. And then you can have the D/F/E flock sheep throw a wild card super dark lamb/messed up horns, etc. You can never guaranty what you'll get with these guys, no matter what the flock letter is, but that is half the fun of these guys : )
Marie


--- fourhornfarm at frontier.com wrote:

From: "Carl Fosbrink" <fourhornfarm at frontier.com>
To: <spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com>
Cc: <oliveoyl_123 at hotmail.com>, <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Black Jacobs!
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 18:40:07 -0400


Flock letter doesn't mean as much as seeing the parents, grandparents etc. so that you know what is in the background. Selecting for good animals to pass on good genes is important. The better the genes you pass on the better chance you will get better lambs and after a few years of doing this you will get a higher percentage of keeper lambs.
I would encourage registration so people can use the pedigree search and see what is in the background of your animals. I like to see the pedigrees on Jacobs I buy as well as pictures of the parents, grandparents etc. as far back as possible. I mostly keep my own ewes so know their background, but when I buy a new ram I know I am bringing in a whole set of new genes so am very careful of what I am introducing into my flock.
It may be luck of the draw as to how the spots are arranged on the lambs born, but it is all in the genes as to the rest of it. Conformation, horns, fleece, temperament etc. are all in the genes.
You have some nice Jacobs. Keep up the good work.

Carl



From: spotted_sheep at bluefrog.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:51 PM
To: Carl Fosbrink
Cc: oliveoyl_123 at hotmail.com ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Black Jacobs!


She hasn't been registered yet. I haven't had the money or time to do so until recently. And have been wondering if I should even bother registering anyway (ewes that is).
She is out of Chicory Lane Houdini and Meridian Zena (two registered C flock animals). Sire of the lamb is a C flock animal as well (not that flock letter really matters - just luck of the draw).

Marie

--- fourhornfarm at frontier.com wrote:

From: "Carl Fosbrink" <fourhornfarm at frontier.com>
To: "Sue Roenke" <oliveoyl_123 at hotmail.com>, <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Black Jacobs!
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 15:24:20 -0400


I tried to bring up Meridian Sadie's pedigree on the JSBA pedigree search and found no matches. Is that her correct registered name?


From: Sue Roenke
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:06 PM
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Black Jacobs!


We had an almost all black purebred Jacob lamb born last year, pictures on our Facebook page.
Sue and Marie
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.171304052931100.43461.164095880318584&type=3


> From: hettick.1 at osu.edu
> To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 10:59:48 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Black Jacobs!
>
> I've had a purebred white Jacob, but never purebred black. The white ones just have too many spots!
>
> I can get a 4 horned and spotted lamb from an Icelandic/Jacob cross if the Icelandic carries spotting, but you can tell they are crosses because, in most cases, they are double coated and have short tails. I occasionally get a single coated one though, but I've always kept track of who the father is and who got out with the wrong ram and when, if that was the case. THey would be a lot like the Shetland crosses, but some Shetlands are single coated - and some Jacobs have naturally shorter tails too, just to confuse things.
>
> Navaho Churros can also be 4 horned, but they are also a double coated breed so you should be able to tell the difference, plus I think they can have wool forward of their horns, but I'm not sure. They come in a variety of colors and patterns including spotted and solid black. There are 4 horned Icelandics too, but not in North America.
>
> Heather Hettick
> Moonstruck Farm
> creston, OH
> www.moonstruckfarm.wordpress.com
> www.moonstruckfarm.etsy.com
>
> I still have a couple young ( 1 and two years old) but experienced 2 horned and registered Jacob ewes for sale who would love to be bred to a real Jacob ram for a change!
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
_______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message was delivered by BlueFrog.com. For the best email, please visit http://www.bluefrog.com

If you believe this message is spam, please report to abuse at bluefrog.com.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message was delivered by BlueFrog.com. For the best email, please visit http://www.bluefrog.com

If you believe this message is spam, please report to abuse at bluefrog.com.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



_______________________________________________
Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20120809/975ad0b6/attachment-0001.htm>

More information about the Jacob-list mailing list