[Jacob-list] Foot Stomping
Robin Lynde
rlynde at onramp113.org
Tue Oct 5 17:08:03 EDT 2010
I agree that there are a lot of different methods and what works for one may not work for another. There are also rams of all different temperaments. But there are a lot of people out there who are new to sheep. When novices buy lambs I caution them about ram behavior and management They often don't heed the warning (what could it hurt to have this cute ram lamb come eat out of my hand?) and that can lead to a dangerous situation, especially when they have children around.
Robin Lynde
Meridian Jacobs
Vacaville, CA
www.meridianjacobs.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Johann Kuntz
To: rlynde at onramp113.org ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Foot Stomping
Robin,
The stick method is one I forgot about. I don't often use it myself, but it is pretty good for protecting oneself. I agree that the foot stomping and staring is a challenge to the ram, but I intend to stay at the top of the pecking order with my ram which is why I do it. I've just found it to be one area where the ram can't compete with me. Of course with an overly aggressive ram this may not have the same results so I guess one must really know their ram(s) to know if this will work for them or not. For me it works very well. Your method of halter breaking them and not messing with them often sounds pretty good too. In my situation the ram is currently with the ewes, and they roam an area that I have to pass through frequently. My ram actually is very nice and likes me to scratch his head, but on occasion he will act like he's gonna try hitting me. It's then that I stomp my foot at him. That usually sends him running. :) The ram I had before him was more aggressive and I couldn't be so friendly with him, although the foot stomping still worked. However I also had to move towards him quickly while stomping my feet. It would always make him turn away, but he is one that I also preferred to use a stick with to block myself just in case. With my last ram I didn't originally try staring him down either, but I started running into problems with aggression. When I read about looking a ram in the eyes and waiting until they look away first I tried it on him and found it to greatly reduce his aggression towards me. These are just my observations though, and I'm sure my methods aren't for everyone. Everyone must assess their own situation and decide what is best for them.
Johann
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From: rlynde at onramp113.org
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 08:27:44 -0700
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Foot Stomping
My opinion is that stomping at a ram and staring him in the face will be construed as a challenge to some rams and is quite dangerous. Here is what I do with rams. I halter break the ones that I'm going to keep just so that they can be tied when needing to work around them. I don't have anything to do with them other than that. They are not with the ewes except during breeding. They don't get handled unless I have to deworm, trim feet, etc. The ones that are aggressive are butchered. Even though the adult rams I have now are OK I don't go in the ram pen without a stick of some kind (pvc pipe, crook, etc) and I don't turn my back on them. I also don't stare them down.
Robin Lynde
Meridian Jacobs
Vacaville, CA
www.meridianjacobs.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Johann Kuntz
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:50 PM
Subject: [Jacob-list] Foot Stomping
I'm just curious as to whether other people do what I do. Sometimes my ram gets that "I'm gonna hit you and see what you do" look about him. When he does I stomp my foot at him and he backs off. Sometimes I stomp once, and sometimes I stomp two or three times while stepping towards him. This always makes him back off. I must note that I stare him down while doing this.
Does anyone else use the foot stomping method?
I believe I know why this is so effective. Unlike head butting which we cannot compete with (rams are unimpressed if we smack them on the head), foot stomping is something we can totally impress them with. I have noticed that rams will often stomp their foot as a more basic sign of aggression before they take it up a level to head bashing. If you can beat them in round one they won't move on to round two. Since we have so much greater surface area on our feet we can stomp much louder and more forcefully. This whole foot stomping thing is the only consistently affective thing I've found to do to deter a ram. I'd like to list the other things I've tried along with their effectiveness.
I've tried the "throw water at their face" method, and it works well. The problem is I usually am not carrying water, and it's not convenient. It does work though.
Slapping the ram under the chin. This kind of works as it does stop my ram from hitting, but he has quickly learned to put his head down so I can't reach under his chin. Therefore I think this method is not effective for more than the first few tries. It still is useful though.
In older posts on here I've read that some people will grab the ram by the horns and flip him on his back and then sit or kneel on him (gently of course) for a little bit to assert their dominance. I read that after doing this the ram will never bother you again. I have tried this on my ram as well. I found that he looked incredibly embarrassed when I let him go. He looked so embarrassed that I felt sorry for him. However, I did not find this to have a long term affect on him. He will still test me. I have to say that for the effort involved in using this method, it is impractical for some people. It is still worth knowing how to do though just for the temporary affect it has on the ram.
Sheep mount each other often times to assert dominance over each other. I have found that sometimes placing my hand above the rams rump on his lower back has a similar affect. When one sheep mounts another, the sheep being mounted will move to get away. I have found that I can get the ram to move away sometimes by placing my hand on his lower back above his rump. I think this method can be useful when you need the ram to move, but it's not really for when he's showing aggression as he will be facing you and this option won't be practical. This is not a highly affective method, but I've found it to be useful all the same.
I want to assure everyone that my ram is generally very nice and sweet, but he is still a ram. I'm not talking about this due to him being overly aggressive. I just want to talk about what I've experienced and see if others have similar or different experiences with these methods. What does everyone think of these methods? What is your favorite method?
Johann
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