[Jacob-list] (no subject)

[Neal and Louise Grose]

I have noticed similar color spots on black sheep through the years. We had a Corriedale a few years back that had a beautiful gold oval on her side. I think that Dan is correct in seeing this as a post-conception mutation of an embryonic cell, the daughters of which went on to form a spot in which some portion of the black was obscured. This likely has nothing to do with lilac. I doubt that color is carried on the X chromosome in sheep as it is in cats. I will say though, that there are some old reports of tri-color Finnsheep.

Our lilacs have been non-fading, for the most part, just like the black and whites. I think this is a matter of selection. Lilacs were probably not selected as vigorously for fading.

Neal
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dan Carpenter 
  To: 'Linda' 
  Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 10:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] (no subject)


  I don't know about rabbits or brindle dogs, but calico cats are a result of the fact that female mammalian cells only utilize one X chromosome, the other is "packaged" into a structure called a Barr body.which one of the two X chromosomes varies from cell to cell within the organism.  (Male calicos are XXY and nearly always sterile.)

   

  My best guess on the different color patch in Jacobs is that somewhere in early development a cell mutated and all of the descendents of that cell carry the mutation.  If that is true, these somatic mutations would never be inheritable as they were not in the germ-line cells (egg/sperm).  (I would love to be able to cross a couple of these "tricolor" animals and see if in fact it would inherit.)  I think that if this were the result of a gene that allowed the expression of different colors we would see the different colors in several places on the animal (as opposed to a single patch).

   

  I believe you're right about the definition of "lilac."  I guess that right now lilac means anything that isn't black, and that definition is starting to bother me.  There is a microscope "signature" to "true lilac" (true in my opinion) that makes that the easiest color for me to define-If I have a wool sample and a microscope, that is.  Black vs. brown, grey, etc., are harder for me to delineate clearly.  When I get a chance I intend to do a microscopic examination of the wool from the off-color patch on Crescens and see if carries that lilac signature.

   

  -Dan

   

  From: jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com [mailto:jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com] On Behalf Of Linda
  Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 7:17 PM
  To: Dan Carpenter
  Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] (no subject)

   

  Well, Dan, you've done more thinking about lilac genetics than anyone else I know - what do you think :-)

  There is a gene in rabbits (japanese gene) that allows different colors to express. It's the gene for tricolor and harlequin rabbits (and I guess it's the same for calico cats and brindle dogs?). In rabbits (don't know about dogs and cats) it shows up only on agouti animals, which probably wouldn't apply to your sheep. Is there a gene that would allow dilute/non dilute to express on the same animal? 

  I'm not sure we have a firm definition of what is lilac or even what is black. I've had a few sheep with brown wool - black facial and leg markings. As far as I could determine they were not lilac carriers and I considered them poor blacks, not lilacs. There was no color banding that might indicate a mineral deficiency, but perhaps that was a factor.

  I hope you'll follow through and let us know what you decide.

  Linda.   

  On 4/6/2010 10:48 AM, Dan Carpenter wrote: 

  I sheared yesterday and found a clearly grey patch on an otherwise dark black 2-year old ram.  I noticed a different color on him last year when I sheared, but just figured it was a stain or faded spot.  (Some of you saw this ram at AGM last year and noticed the spot.)  This ram is a proven lilac carrier, but I don't know if the grey is from lilac or something else.  (Though I suppose that anything that isn't black is lilac.)

   

  See pictures at: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=11795463&l=35be1b9e9a&id=710530252 & http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=11795965&l=a06f251237&id=710530252.

   

   

  -Dan

   

   

   

   

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