[Jacob-list] Great Information Re:Primitive

[Chris and Tina Griffin]

The knowledge of this group continues to astound me.  I would have quoted 
the literal Hebrew had I been home and I am so glad that multiple versions 
were quoted since my original posting.  Now Linda had to add some new 
information that really got my juices flowing.  A sheep browsing on its hind 
legs, that would be interesting to see.  Of all the primitive traits that 
Linda brought up, our sheep exhibit all but the browsing.  I wonder if I can 
train them?!?

Chris
www.griffinsark.com

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From: <jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:15 PM
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Subject: Jacob-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 13


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> Today's Topics:

>

>   1. Re: Primitive and history (Jacobflock at aol.com)

>   2. primitive vs 'back in the old days' (Linda)

>   3. [Fwd:  primitive vs 'back in the old days'] (Linda)

>   4. Re: Jacob makes it as a cover model! (Linda)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:13:47 EST

> From: Jacobflock at aol.com

> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Primitive and history

> To: nlgrose at yadtel.net

> Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com

> Message-ID: <d4c.50a741ce.382cad3b at aol.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> I have found the article in the Encyclopedia Judaica (Biology, pp

> 1024-1028) to be of interest in telling the story of Jacob from the Hebrew 

> text.

> One point the Rabbis and J Feliks (article writers) makes is  that the

> Christian Bible story in English doesn't present the story as it should 

> be

> understood.  According to the European Christian interpretation of  the 

> story, the

> rods that Jacob peeled for white stripes "set over against the  flocks"

> (Jacob's flock) led to the birth of "spotted" sheep.   This is not a 

> proper

> understanding of the Hebrew story.

>

> Jacob says to Laban, "I will pass through your flock, remove every 

> speckled

> and spotted one, and every dark one among the sheep, and the spotted and

> speckled among the goats; and of such will be my hire."  The population of

> sheep, 75% are white wooled, 25% brown spotted wool and about 75% of the

> goats are black, 25% of the goats have white or brown spots.  White sheep 

> and

> black goats are "monochrome", spotted sheep and goats are "spotted".

> Jacob suggested that Laban separate from the monochrome sheep all the 

> spotted

> ones and take them for himself and he, Jacob, would tend only the 

> monochrome

> ones.  As his pay, ("and of such shall be my hire") he would keep all the

> spotted born of the monochrome sheep and goats.

>

> Laban likes the idea, assuming the monochrome sheep would not produce many

> if any spotted sheep and Laban takes the spotted sheep and sends them off

> with  his sons into the next county.  Jacob, the grifter and con man, who

> just  took high school sheep tending for six years, remembers ... 

> phenotype and

> genotype are different  ...  they were all monochrome but they were  1/3

> homozygotes and 2/3 heterozygotes for spots. Jacob had to breed the

> heterozygotes among themselves.

>

> Then the dream. "Lift up your eyes and see all the he-goats which leap 

> upon

> the flock are streaked, speckled and grizzled".  The heterozygotes had

> excessive potency (hybrid vigor heterosis); the "spotted" carriers 

> conceived

> earlier than the homozygotes.  The "stronger" are the mekusharot, the

> "feebler" the atufim. Jacob laid the peeled rods before the mekusharot 

> that  they

> might conceive, but not when the flock were atufim, i.e, not before those

> that would conceive later.  The atufim were Labans.

>

> The peeled rods?  Jacob conned Laban by using the "superstitious" ag

> technique of the time ... breeding done in a certain environment or  under

> certain signs resulted in god/bad offspring.

>

> The next story ... Rachel gets the mandrakes for fertility and a son.

> Whoops, Leah has the child.  Those superstitions don't seem to  work, 

> Yaweh has

> a plan that will work.

>

> I asked a Kurdish friend about the peeled stakes; some shepherds still use

> them today.

>

> Fred Horak

>

>

>

> In a message dated 11/9/2009 4:04:32 A.M. Central Standard Time,

> nlgrose at yadtel.net writes:

>

> "God's Secretaries" * did a pretty  good job with the Hebrew Bible,

> actually. Most of the problems  with the King James Version came because 

> they had a

> less accurate  copy of the Greek New Testament to work with. Here is the

> verse in  question in the Hebrew Bible in English (

> _http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0130.htm_ 

> (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0130.htm)  ).  I'll

> let Jews translate their own  scripture.

>

>

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>

> Message: 2

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:16:26 -0500

> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at windstream.net>

> Subject: [Jacob-list] primitive vs 'back in the old days'

> To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

> Message-ID: <4AFB53DA.5000000 at windstream.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>

> The discussion on primitive characteristics has been very interesting -

> and it was fun to go back to the archives and see what we all said about

> it in 2002.

> The original post from FarmGirl was in reference to what a primitive

> sheep looks like.

>> Awhile back there was a discussion on the list about

>> primative traits of Jacob sheep. The following traits

>> were listed: udder close to body, ease of lambing,

>> track narrowly, slender legs, presence or alertness,

>> deer shaped body, shedding of belly and sometimes neck

>> wool, standing on rear legs to browse, good mothers,

>> sloping croup, triangular shaped head. From the recent

>> discussion on the list it appears  we could add

>> jumping and pronking ability and down type fleece to

>> the list also.

>>

>

> -- 

> Patchwork Farm Jacob Sheep <http://www.patchworkfibers.com>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 3

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:19:00 -0500

> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at windstream.net>

> Subject: [Jacob-list] [Fwd:  primitive vs 'back in the old days']

> To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

> Message-ID: <4AFB5474.9060008 at windstream.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>

> Hit send when I meant to hit save... more later

>

> -------- Original Message --------

> Subject: [Jacob-list] primitive vs 'back in the old days'

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:16:26 -0500

> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at windstream.net>

> To: jacob-list <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

>

>

>

> The discussion on primitive characteristics has been very interesting -

> and it was fun to go back to the archives and see what we all said about

> it in 2002.

> The original post from FarmGirl was in reference to what a primitive

> sheep looks like.

>> Awhile back there was a discussion on the list about

>> primative traits of Jacob sheep. The following traits

>> were listed: udder close to body, ease of lambing,

>> track narrowly, slender legs, presence or alertness,

>> deer shaped body, shedding of belly and sometimes neck

>> wool, standing on rear legs to browse, good mothers,

>> sloping croup, triangular shaped head. From the recent

>> discussion on the list it appears  we could add

>> jumping and pronking ability and down type fleece to

>> the list also.

>>

>

> -- 

> Patchwork Farm Jacob Sheep <http://www.patchworkfibers.com>

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> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks

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>

> -- 

> Patchwork Farm Jacob Sheep <http://www.patchworkfibers.com>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 4

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:03:36 -0500

> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at windstream.net>

> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Jacob makes it as a cover model!

> To: gotothewhip at aol.com

> Cc: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com

> Message-ID: <4AFB5EE8.9060908 at windstream.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

>

> That's great - wonder how many people will wonder what kind of "goat"

> Turbo is :-)

>

> gotothewhip at aol.com wrote:

>> Very excited to see that onr of my rams is featured on their Ads for

>> Sopris sheep halters... I am a BIG fam of their products, and am

>> tickled that Turbo is their Cover Boy! They took this photo at Estes

>> Park Wool Market

>>

>> http://www.soprissheep.com/sheep.html

>>

>>

>> Jennifer Tucker

>> Moose Mtn Ranch

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks

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>

> -- 

> Patchwork Farm Jacob Sheep <http://www.patchworkfibers.com>

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