[Jacob-list] The Bachelor Party - Solo, Duo or Trio?

[Debbie Bennett]

I've tried different ways of keeping rams: ram with a wether buddy 
works, ram by himself in close proximity to the ewes (an older ram did 
really well with this, for younger rams this was too close to the ewes 
and they tried to jump the fence and they beat up the gate), I have 
raised two unrelated ram lambs together, put them in separate breeding 
groups and put them back together for the rest of the year (put them 
back together at Dusk, in their old pasture, so they have the night to 
get used to each other and they re-established their pecking order 
without much trouble. I've never had a problem putting lots of ram 
lambs with an older ram until the ram lambs were sold. I've also run 
rams of two different breeds together - each breed smells different and 
a ram of a different breed is not as much of a threat to one's manhood 
and they can establish dominance (usually the Jacob even though he's 
smaller) without much, if any, head butting.
The ONLY time I've had a real problem keeping rams together, was with 3 
Jacob rams in one pasture. I had raised two unrelated Jacob rams 
together and then needed a space for a ram lamb (the offspring of one). 
The dominant ram chose his offspring as second, took the little guy 
under his wing to teach him to be a ram and the other ram got left out, 
got less food, and became a real jerk trying to become #2 again. With 
three ewes together, I had the same problem, #3 constantly tried to 
become 1 or 2.
I know you said you wouldn't leave the ram with the herd all year, but 
just a little insight on doing that; the ram we had with the the herd 
all year, needed his space - I used to watch him leave the women and 
children every morning, take a walk to the far end of the field and 
bask in the sun or sit under a tree in the rain for about two hours. He 
would then re-join the herd and even play with his offspring and 
babysit while the ewes grazed, but he needed his "quiet time" every 
morning.Whatever you decide will work for you, I'm sure your ram(s) 
will adjust to the situation.
Debbie Bennett
Feral Fibre Farm


On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 08:50 AM, Tara Higgins wrote:

> Heel low:
>
> Some questions about Jacob ram behaviour and keeping.  I am all newbie
> at this, having never kept a ram before.  I would appreciate some 
> advice
> on methods of keeping Jacob rams in a peaceful state.  What others have
> found that worked or potential problems and/or triggers to avoid.  I am
> not naive enough to think rams cannot live up to their name's sake, but
> keeping head butting, aggression, and destruction down to a dull roar
> would be good.
>
> My ram lamb Nicto fast approaches 3 months of age.  I have heard that 
> at
> this tender age, Jacobs are capable of breeding.  The weather is still
> hot at about 90 degrees F, so my ewes and ewe lambs should not begin
> cycling until the weather cools a bit BUT I need to begin gearing up to
> separate Nicto from the all ewe flock, especially his dam and two
> sisters as I am not an advocate of "inbreeding."
>
> I have heard from those who keep a single ram year round with the flock
> (obviously he is compatible to breeding all the ewes in his flock and
> has an aimable personality with the lambs) and from those who run a
> separate ram flock with the males only in with the ewes during breeding
> time.  I could keep Nicto away from the ewe flock in solitary company 
> of
> my yearling male llama, but I figure this is cruel and unusual
> punishment to keep sheep from the company of sheep...yeh, newbie
> alright!  :-)
>
> My property is not large (4.5 acres) but is a long three sided
> "stretched" piece.  I am contemplating putting the ram(s) in one barn
> that is out of sight (but not likely sound or smell...our human
> abilities have been so desensitived in comparison!) of the main barn
> which will contain the ewes...some ewes will be left open this year as 
> I
> wait for my sheep to be yearlings before they are bred.  The ram barn
> (the signage says "saloon") is surrounded by 8 ten foot six bar pipe
> panels that have OSB 4x8 windbreak sheets or wire mesh hog panels (dog,
> lamb, predator proof) on them.   This corral is then surrounded by a
> fenced pasture and if they broke out, they would have to get out of 
> that
> pasture and then into another and then the corraled area around the
> ewe's barn, so we have containment within containment.  I hear Jacob
> rams are capable of floating over six+ foot fences, tunneling under and
> even thru barriers to get to their objectives...dem woolly girlies.
> Worse than spring break at the beaches!  ;-)
>
> I hear there is an "adjustment" period most every time the rams are
> re-introduced to each other...kinda a time of head bashing jostling to
> figure out who is head honcho and then they settle into baching 
> together
> again.  I have heard pros and cons for putting rams together in a 
> little
> pen where they cannot get a good run going to hit each other hard...one
> situation where two rams in a barn got beat up bad without the obvious
> distance required for backing up...the alternative to a small pen is a
> big open pasture where they can "run away" from aggression if they are
> on the losing end.
>
> Would it make better sense to have two rams or three...or just one?  I
> am contemplating having a trio of rams (bring in two more ram lambs).  
> I
> am thinking two would be buddies but if I brought in a third, the two
> would gang up on the new one as an outsider and he'd never be accepted.
> I need some Jacob ram psychology observations.  Pending personalities
> and physical attributes, three rams would seem to make the most sense
> thinking that one ram would always have two around him and he'd be more
> likely to be chummy in a group OR he could have that many more targets
> to aim for...golly this is FUN?!  Three does allow for ample genetic
> mixes with my ewe flock in the future though.
>
> I have heard that evenly aged/weighted two horn rams will win at combat
> more than four horns will; bigger horn circumferance and just a more
> stable solid battering area, is this what Jacobers are observing?
>
> Do toys like hard plastic balls amuse rams or incite more aggressive
> behaviours?  I know enough not to "pet" rams on the top of their heads
> (encourages butting) but to scratch chins instead and not to put up 
> with
> any aggressive behaviour such as pushing or invading my space
> uninvited.  Dogs (predators) seem to find play a way to release energy
> and become more aimable--it is alright to cuddle the wolf, but not
> necessarily good to become overly comfortable with the ram.  Sheep are
> prey and have different behaviours, triggers, and mannerisms.  Any tips
> on how to be friendly with the Jacob boys but not to incite dominance
> triggers.  What ages are you seeing the rams "turn" on the bad
> behaviours?  Two years?
>
> I do have a ram shield from Premier (nfi) that is designed to fit a
> horned ram and does not allow them to see forward.  They are able to 
> see
> on the side so can graze, drink and even breed.  I have not used the
> shield yet, but would appreciate hearing if others have and how it
> worked out before I buy more.  One suggestion is to shield ALL rams and
> not just one as this puts the shielded one at a major disadvantage and
> open to attacks by the ones able to fully see.
>
> I am willing to alter any rams who do not work out (overly
> aggressive/destructive) and need to know if anyone has seen marked
> improvement personality wise post-altering--I do not need to "ship" if
> castration softens temperaments--is a "ram" always a battering ram once
> they go this way?  My situation is unusual in the fact that my main
> reason for keeping Jacobs is for herding work with my ACDogs
> ...individuals may easily lead "non-breeding" existances and still
> remain very useful members of my flock...in fact altered males could be
> bonafided bonuses since they may be "worked" all year round without 
> time
> out for breeding, lambing, etc. and would still provide bonuses like
> herding area mowing, gorgeous ram presence without the punch of
> unpredictable testosterone, and a fleece return each year...boys sans
> certain parts make for many pleasant plusses??
>
> Appreciate comments, input, experiences and observations on Jacob ram
> keeping techniques!
>
> Rammy doggone it,
>
> Tara
> --
>      ____(\                Tara Lee Higgins                  /)____
>     (_____~>        Rat Ranch - An ACD is for LIFE          <~_____)
>    ( ``  ``          ranchrat at telusplanet.net                ``  `` )
>     \                      Alberta Canada                         /
>      )  http://www.telusplanet.net/public/ranchrat/index.html     (
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks
> Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list
>