[AGL] Re: "There is no Chinese language"?

[Jon Ford]

Bill-- you seem to take umbrage with the article, calling it a "font of 
misinformation", but, frankly, you don't make much as a case for anything 
else. For instance, you admit that "most people in China speak Mandarin or 
know enough to get by." That's what my article said! It is the official 
language.Naturally, it isn't the "native language for so many, it is a kind 
of "official language." The same thing happens in India, where English is an 
official "public" language, but many speak a different "native" language Of 
course, many people, expecially rural people, don't know it very well, but 
they know "enough to get by" if they are out in the public world or travel a 
lot. I'm sure that my article simplified the number of dialects,but admits 
there are many present, and of course; where therer is a major dialect, 
there are many "subdialects" or variants depending on the largeness of the 
landmass and overall population .
I'm not surprized your wife speaks three different types of Chinese, if she 
has relatives in different parts of China. As for the percentage of Han 
people, every web site I've looked at puts the numbers of Han descended 
Chinese between 91 to 94 %, so 92% seems like a good enough number(maybe you 
just misread the article).
I am aware that people in Beijing speak Manadarin with a "Beijing 
accent."(New Yorkers have a funny accent to, and so do Bostonians, but these 
towns are considered the cradle of the American Republic) However, that 
doesn't mean Beijing is not a center of Mandarin speaking

Jon

Bill opines: Where did you get the article?  It's a font of misinformation.  
There
are a
lot of dialects spoken in China, it must run into the hundreds.  Not
only
are there a lot of different dialects spoken they are also all mixed up
geographically.  One town could be speaking one language and the
neighboring
town another language and the next town down the road could be speaking
an
entirely different language.  This situation came about because over the
centuries population groups have been moved from one place to another.
So
in Yunnan, probably the most diverse province in terms of language, you
can
find one village speaking Tibetan, the next village speaking Mandarin,
the
next speaking Cantonese, and the next village speaking a tribal minority
language, and so on.  I recently saw a story in a major American paper
that
claimed that only 50% of the Chinese speak Mandarin.    I think the
story is
in error and it meant to say that about 50% of the Chinese use Mandarin
as
their native language.  Putonghua translated just means "the common
language".  Most people in China can speak Mandarin or at least
understand
it enough to get by.  Even though there are many languages spoken the
characters remain the same so most people can read the same book and
understand it.  Many Chinese TV programs are subtitled with Chinese
characters as are Chinese movies.  Chinese money has the denomination
printed in 5 different writing systems, I have never been able to figure
out
what the 5 are and any Chinese person I have asked about this don't know
either.  Throughout China there is a system of hand signs for the
numbers so
that anybody can bargain in the market using hand signs, if you travel
to
China it would be helpful to know this sign language.  It is also
incorrect
to say that Mandarin is based on the Beijing dialect.  That is like
saying
that English is based on the southern drawl dialect.  Beijing does have
a
distinct accent as do other parts of China.  There is also a standard
Mandarin accent much like there is a standard American pronunciation.
Today
Mandarin is the standard language taut in schools except in minority
areas
where the instruction may be done in the minority language (China has a
lot
of laws and rules to preserve minority cultures).  Another error in the
article you cited is the Han people (Chinese) are much less than 92% of
the
population.  Chinese characters are called han zi - "Chinese
characters".
My wife can speak 3 Chinese languages - Mandarin, Cantonese, and Hainan
dialect (Hainan, an island of the south coast of China, her father's
family
came from there) but she can't translate any Chinese dialect to English.
Ewie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Ford" <jonmfordster at hotmail.com>
To: <austin-ghetto-list at pairlist.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 7:52 AM
Subject: [AGL] Re: "There is no Chinese language"?


>Harry claims there is no Chinese language per se. Here's some more
precise
>information about the two major types and dialects of Chinese.
Basically,
>everybody in China learns Mandarin, the official national language,
and
>everyone uses the same basic writing system with characters. So they
can
>communicate across regional borders (sort of):
>Jon