[AGL] Re: [FedUp] A bit more action-reaction kneejerkedness...

Jon Ford jonmfordster at hotmail.com
Mon Mar 20 14:20:06 EST 2006 

Well, you can always count on Gerry to stir things up--now the gloves are 
off all around! I'm backing Frances on this one, because she spoke up to 
Harry and Gerry, and  had the nerve to call Kinky "dimikinky." If that means 
dim-witted Kinky, I agree thoroughly, and invite those supporting him  to 
cite anything intelligent he ever said, aside from some jokes and a couple 
of song lyrics.

Jon




Nah, I likes to tackle implications from the blindside.

On Mar 19, 2006, at 9:19 AM, Frances Morey wrote:

	 	Don't jump to any implications...

Harry Edwards <laughingwolf at ev1.net> wrote:The Dog not the Dogma. Now 
Frances, I happen to agree with you from
	 	time to time. (Lemme see, when was the last time . . . ?) And
substance is in the eye of the beholder. (Among other things) I only
chimed in when you seemed to imply that organic produce was merely the
veggies without the external pesticides.

On Mar 18, 2006, at 9:43 PM, Frances Morey wrote:

>Harry can also be counted on to oppose anything I say whether or not
>he has anything substantive to add to the discussion. Maybe he is
>offended by my previous reference to Dimikinky. Oops, that post didn't
>make it. I may be able to resend it.
>  Frances
>
>Wayne Johnson wrote:
>>Frances.
>>  Good points all but trying to have a rational argument with Gerry is
>>like trying to have one with GWB.  Minds made up and committed to
>>dogma rarely flex.
>>  wgJ
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Frances Morey
>>>To: survivors' reminiscences about Austin Ghetto Daze in the 60s
>>>Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 5:09 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [AGL] Re: [FedUp] A bit more action-reaction
>>>kneejerkedness...
>>>
>>>In response to Gerry's pontificating: But why waste my time, I
>>>wonder?
>>>  Have you lost your taste buds, girl?
>>>  A blind t aste test is the only way such a broadside could be
>>>measured.
>>>  ... 35 to 40% more nutrition...
>>>  Another baseless statistic off the top of the head. Where's the
>>>evidence?
>>>  ...in a typical row of say 50 plants, the insects will only eat
>>>those which are the runts of the litter..
>>>  That is really off the wall--insects eat according to however big
>>>their population has grown--think hoards of locusts who eat every
>>>available chloroblast. Insects have yet to be tested for for their
>>>ability to discern plant's age-determined palatability. The law of
>>>the jungle usually applies to animals, Gerry. It's fire that kills
>>>trees, trees try to overpower one another and vines that try to kill
>>>trees, kinda like a scissors, paper, rock. Of course, the activities
>>>of humans kill 'em a ll, environmental considerations be
>>>damned--think Easter Islanders.
>>>  ... big green cutworms who eat the whole plant before it makes
>>>fruit. These must be removed by hand (wear a glove). Kids like this
>>>activity and generally do a good job since the plants are at eye
>>>level to them...
>>>  My gramma and me as a toddler in our matching bonnets used to pluck
>>>insects off our carefully tended plants at dawn when they are most
>>>likely to be chomping away. Caterpillars go into hiding at full
>>>daylight when birds can see them, or the sun's too hot. We had a
>>>garden the size of a city lot and watered by flood irriga tion from
>>>the faucet at the high end of the plot. Gramma would carefully hoe
>>>channels to each of the planted rows. The system worked quite well,
>>>even easier than watering by hand held hose, and the water from our
>>>well didn't cost us anything.
>>>  ... Most likely any bites on the surface of the fruit are from
>>>birds...
>>>  Yikes, with avian flu in the wings, so to speak, this could be
>>>deadly!
>>>  ...Hopefully some of the exorbitant price you pay goes to trabajeros
>>>from Mexico...
>>>  Dream on, Gerry. You know better than that. Huelga, Now!
>>>  ...ones which are not cosmetically acceptable for the WF shelves
>>>(taste the same)....
>>>  Hmmm. Here we go predicting that which can only be determined
>>>by taste test. Who do you know who conduct s blind taste tests?
>>>  Good grief, I apparently do what Gerry does--disagree with each
>>>and every assertion, regardless of right or wong headed.  It must be
>>>as catching as avian flu.
>>>  Susi,
>>>I feel sorry for Eugene. Has Walmart landed there yet?
>>>Frances
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Wayne Johnson wrote:
>>>>Jeez, even when Gerry has some good ideas about things, he still
>>>>manages to be a complete ass-hole!  I guess being a rude,
>>>>disrespectful, smug and only partially informed Jerk has become a
>>>>permanent way of life for him.  How sad.
>>>>  wgJ
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: susan
>>>>>To: survivors' reminiscences about Austin Ghetto Daze in the 60s
>>>>>Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 2:37 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [AGL] Re: [FedUp] A couple of items for the grocery
>>>>>discussion...
>>>>>
>>>>>whole foods is coming to eugene, however they had a contingency
>>>>>clause that said the city would fund a parking garage to be built
>>>>>by their contractor, or no deal,  eugene has plenty of upscale
>>>>>organic grocery stores, though nothing on the order of whole
>>>>>foods.  after lots of public dismay, the city council okayed the
>>>>>deal, so long to the small guys who've been here for years
>>>>>providing organic produce and herbal/alternative health items as a
>>>>>choice to safeway/albertsons type stores. i'm sure the store will
>>>>>look good from the new federal courthouse being built across the
>>>>>stre et. way to go eugene..
>>>>>susi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>on 3/18/06 12:38 PM, Gerry at mesmo at gilanet.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>The wealth in America is staggering, unprecidented in human
>>>>>>history.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And so is the debt...The new bu dget bill, courtesy of the
>>>>>>conservatives in the white house, adds $30K for every man, woman,
>>>>>>and child. Need an economic boom? Increase the credit card limits
>>>>>>by 50% and watch the dow rise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>After all a tomato is a tomato is a tomato. What is the opposite
>>>>>>of organic anyway, inorganic?
>>>>>>Pesticides can be washed off. Who would find it more desirable to
>>>>>>share the food supply with insects than wash their produce with
>>>>>>soap and water? Often shoppers will turn up their noses at any
>>>>>>evidence of insect bites which are inevitable without some form
>>>>>>of an insecticide shield.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Frances, when you go out on a limb like this I for one wonder if
>>>>>>you really know anything about food or not. The chemically grown,
>>>>>>thick-skin ned, pulpy crap that passes for a tomato at the local
>>>>>>super market compared to a real heirl oom fruit grown in mineral
>>>>>>rich soil is like night and day. Lab studies reveal that organic
>>>>>>means about 35 to 40% more nutrition. Have you lost your t aste
>>>>>>buds, girl? The opposite of organic is chemical. Sharing the food
>>>>>>supply with insects is the natural and inescapable way. But in a
>>>>>>typical row of say 50 plants, the insects will only eat those
>>>>>>which are the runts of the litter. The biggest, healthiest plants
>>>>>>ward them off. The real enemy of tomato plants is the big green
>>>>>>cutworms who eat the whole plant before it makes fruit. These
>>>>>>must be removed by hand (wear a glove). Kids like this activity
>>>>>>and generally do a good job since the plants are at eye level to
>>>>>>them . Most likely any bites on the surface of the fruit are from
>>>>>>birds. Even the tomatoes at the health food outlets in winter are
>>>>>>quite pulpy and often thick-skinned. Hydrophonically grown fruit
>>>>>>is to me tasteless and weird.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As we speak I am starting tomato plants inside, about 7 varieties
>>>>>>this year. They won't go into the ground until after the frost
>>>>>>threat (mid May). The rows they will occupy are currently
>>>>>>sporting a crop of winter whea t which will be plowed under in a
>>>>>>few weeks, adding to the micro-organism base below which is fed
>>>>>>by layers of cow manure, straw, and leaves which have been down
>>>>>>there cooking since mid January, kept damp by buried soak hose.
>>>>>>Lots of worms already on the scene.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The tomato plants will be transplanted in a double handful of
>>>>>>fresh compost, then topped by a cage of hogwire. Around the cages
>>>>>>I will string an agricultural fabric (agribon) which covers the
>>>>>>cage and creates an environment which keeps out the bugs and some
>>>>>>of the UV rays as well as the wind, completely covered. Also
>>>>>>helps keep them warm at night, a big plus in the desert. The
>>>>>>result is soft-skinned fruits which knock your socks off at the
>>>>>>fi rst bite. The surplus is cut into thin strips and dried in a
>>>>>>dehydrator for use in winter. The thinner the strip the less
>>>>>>electricity it takes to dry. You can a lso dry them in the sun,
>>>>>>laid out on a flat surface covered with agribon to keep the flies
>>>>>>off. The machine is quicker and produces more uniform results.
>>>>>>Most of last year's crop is now gone, consumed in soups or added
>>>>>>to essene bread dough. Long live tomatoes!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You can find cooperatives on the internet which will sell you
>>>>>>packaged and dried organic produce at a decent price. Organize
>>>>>>some friends and buy it bulk. As for the fresh stuff, court a
>>>>>>neighbor with a garden, or, heaven forbid, learn to grow it
>>>>>>yourself. Lots of little old ladies in my community who thrive on
>>>>>>and with their gardens. Even the patio style of gardening beats
>>>>>>paying an ar m and a leg for inferior food at the markets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In defense of Whole Foods, it does take more care and thus hands
>>>>>>on labor to grow good veggies. Hopefully some of the exorbitant
>>>>>>price you pay goes to trabajeros from Mexico who do the work that
>>>>>>puts the food on our tables. A friend of mine signed a contract
>>>>>>with WF recently to grow winter squash for them this year. He
>>>>>>gets $.6 0 a pound. It will sell for over $2.00  a pound
>>>>>>eventually. But WF sends trucks down here to pick it up and haul
>>>>>>it ABQ/Santa Fe, something he cannot do. I will pick around his
>>>>>>field and score some good fruits--or wait and take the ones which
>>>>>>are not cosmetically acceptable for the WF shelves (tast e the
>>>>>>same).
>>>>>>G
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: Frances Morey  To: Jane Walker  Cc: Austin List  Sent: 
>>>>>>>Saturday, March 18, 2006 9:20 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: [AGL] Re: [FedUp] A couple of items for the grocery
>>>>>>>discussion...
>>>>>>>Hi, Jane,
>>>>>>>I can credit you with the early-on info on Whole Foods....
>>>>>>>Write once in a while.
>>>>>>>Best,
>>>>>>>Frances
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Frances Morey wrote:
>>>>>>>>One early-on employee told me that first-time-shoppers at WF
>>>>>>>>would cruise the lanes and fill up their baskets as usual only
>>>>>>>>to find that the total after check-out was as much as double
>>>>>>>>what they were used to paying. On many occasions, she told me,
>>>>>>>>such shoppers would turn away and leave their full grocery
>>>>>>>>basket behind without paying, stunned from market shock.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Whole Foods is more about conspicous consumption than anthing
>>>>>>>>else.
>>>>>>>>The wealth in America is staggering, unprecidented in human
>>>>>>>>history. Any venue for showing it off is embraced, even grocer y
>>>>>>>>shopping. I go to WF as I would to a restaurant and think of it
>>>>>>>>as the biggest deli on earth. I'm glad to know that WF pays
>>>>>>>>well, which not always reflects in employee attention to
>>>>>>>>customers. I discontinued using Celes tial Seasoning tea when I
>>>>>>>>saw a mention in a business zine that bragged about their
>>>>>>>>paying minimum wage.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thanks for turning us on to the Johnson Farm on Holly St. I saw
>>>>>>>>it and thought it was some kind of community garden. I paid $4
>>>>>>>>.50 last Wednesday for their smallest brownie and two little
>>>>>>>>turnips at Boggy Creek Farm, paying for the the chance to see
>>>>>>>>their chickens, old timey garden and hob nobbing more than for
>>>>>>>>the food. The boquet of snapdragons cost as much as a similar
>>>>>>>>sized boquet of roses at HEB.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I preferred Trader Toms (or something like that) when I was in
>>>>>>>>San Francisco. It was kinda like a chain of Wheatsville Co-ops
>>>>>>>>with even more reasonable pricing. Before Alamo Drafthouse
>>>>>>>>South captured the old Fiesta, nee City Market, location on S.
>>>>>>>>Lamar I envisioned a Tom's as a kick ass competitor to both WF,
>>>>>>>>Central Market and Wheatsville. Ah, no luck. They only operate
>>>>>>>>on the West Coast and up East.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Frances Morey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sherry Coldsmith wrote:
>>>>>>>>>The first link is to an article that rags on Whole Foods.  The
>>>>>>>>>second
>>>>>>>>>link may be of interest to Austinites who really do want to buy
>>>>>>>>>locally.  I get my veg from Johns on's and the quality if
>>>>>>>>>superb.   Tho
>>>>>>>>>you have some control over what they bring you in the weekly or
>>>>>>>>>bi-weekly box, you'll also get some exotics, like kohlrabi,
>>>>>>>>>which will
>>>>>>>>>require you to sha rpen your culinary skills and look up a few
>>>>>>>>>recipes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Sherry
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.slate.com/id/2138176/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.localharvest.org/farms/M12509
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hey you - we like you being here!  But, if you don't wanna,
>>>>>>>>send an email to:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>

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