[AGL] Re: [FedUp] A bit more action-reaction kneejerkedness...

Harry Edwards laughingwolf at ev1.net
Sun Mar 19 14:33:59 EST 2006 

Nah, I likes to tackle implications from the blindside.

On Mar 19, 2006, at 9:19 AM, Frances Morey wrote:

> Don't jump to any implications...
>
> Harry Edwards <laughingwolf at ev1.net> wrote:The Dog not the Dogma. Now 
> Frances, I happen to agree with you from
>> time to time. (Lemme see, when was the last time . . . ?) And
>> substance is in the eye of the beholder. (Among other things) I only
>> chimed in when you seemed to imply that organic produce was merely the
>> veggies without the external pesticides.
>>
>> On Mar 18, 2006, at 9:43 PM, Frances Morey wrote:
>>
>> > Harry can also be counted on to oppose anything I say whether or not
>> > he has anything substantive to add to the discussion. Maybe he is
>> > offended by my previous reference to Dimikinky. Oops, that post 
>> didn't
>> > make it. I may be able to resend it.
>> >  
>> > Frances
>> >
>> > Wayne Johnson wrote:
>> >> Frances.
>> >>  
>> >> Good points all but trying to have a rational argument with Gerry 
>> is
>> >> like trying to have one with GWB.  Minds made up and committed to
>> >> dogma rarely flex.
>> >>  
>> >> wgJ
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: Frances Morey
>> >>> To: survivors' reminiscences about Austin Ghetto Daze in the 60s
>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 5:09 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AGL] Re: [FedUp] A bit more action-reaction
>> >>> kneejerkedness...
>> >>>
>> >>> In response to Gerry's pontificating: But why waste my time, I
>> >>> wonder?
>> >>>  
>> >>> Have you lost your taste buds, girl?
>> >>>  
>> >>> A blind t aste test is the only way such a broadside could be
>> >>> measured.
>> >>>  
>> >>> ... 35 to 40% more nutrition...
>> >>>  
>> >>> Another baseless statistic off the top of the head. Where's the
>> >>> evidence?
>> >>>  
>> >>> ...in a typical row of say 50 plants, the insects will only eat
>> >>> those which are the runts of the litter..
>> >>>  
>> >>> That is really off the wall--insects eat according to however big
>> >>> their population has grown--think hoards of locusts who eat every
>> >>> available chloroblast. Insects have yet to be tested for for their
>> >>> ability to discern plant's age-determined palatability. The law of
>> >>> the jungle usually applies to animals, Gerry. It's fire that kills
>> >>> trees, trees try to overpower one another and vines that try to 
>> kill
>> >>> trees, kinda like a scissors, paper, rock. Of course, the 
>> activities
>> >>> of humans kill 'em a ll, environmental considerations be
>> >>> damned--think Easter Islanders.
>> >>>  
>> >>> ... big green cutworms who eat the whole plant before it makes
>> >>> fruit. These must be removed by hand (wear a glove). Kids like 
>> this
>> >>> activity and generally do a good job since the plants are at eye
>> >>> level to them...
>> >>>  
>> >>> My gramma and me as a toddler in our matching bonnets used to 
>> pluck
>> >>> insects off our carefully tended plants at dawn when they are most
>> >>> likely to be chomping away. Caterpillars go into hiding at full
>> >>> daylight when birds can see them, or the sun's too hot. We had a
>> >>> garden the size of a city lot and watered by flood irriga tion 
>> from
>> >>> the faucet at the high end of the plot. Gramma would carefully hoe
>> >>> channels to each of the planted rows. The system worked quite 
>> well,
>> >>> even easier than watering by hand held hose, and the water from 
>> our
>> >>> well didn't cost us anything.
>> >>>  
>> >>> ... Most likely any bites on the surface of the fruit are from
>> >>> birds...
>> >>>  
>> >>> Yikes, with avian flu in the wings, so to speak, this could be
>> >>> deadly!
>> >>>  
>> >>> ...Hopefully some of the exorbitant price you pay goes to 
>> trabajeros
>> >>> from Mexico...
>> >>>  
>> >>> Dream on, Gerry. You know better than that. Huelga, Now!
>> >>>  
>> >>> ...ones which are not cosmetically acceptable for the WF shelves
>> >>> (taste the same)....
>> >>>  
>> >>> Hmmm. Here we go predicting that which can only be determined
>> >>> by taste test. Who do you know who conduct s blind taste tests?
>> >>>  
>> >>> Good grief, I apparently do what Gerry does--disagree with each
>> >>> and every assertion, regardless of right or wong headed.  It must 
>> be
>> >>> as catching as avian flu.
>> >>>  
>> >>> Susi,
>> >>> I feel sorry for Eugene. Has Walmart landed there yet?
>> >>> Frances
>> >>>  
>> >>>  
>> >>>  
>> >>>  
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Wayne Johnson wrote:
>> >>>> Jeez, even when Gerry has some good ideas about things, he still
>> >>>> manages to be a complete ass-hole!  I guess being a rude,
>> >>>> disrespectful, smug and only partially informed Jerk has become a
>> >>>> permanent way of life for him.  How sad.
>> >>>>  
>> >>>> wgJ
>> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> From: susan
>> >>>>> To: survivors' reminiscences about Austin Ghetto Daze in the 60s
>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 2:37 PM
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AGL] Re: [FedUp] A couple of items for the grocery
>> >>>>> discussion...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> whole foods is coming to eugene, however they had a contingency
>> >>>>> clause that said the city would fund a parking garage to be 
>> built
>> >>>>> by their contractor, or no deal,  eugene has plenty of upscale
>> >>>>> organic grocery stores, though nothing on the order of whole
>> >>>>> foods.  after lots of public dismay, the city council okayed the
>> >>>>> deal, so long to the small guys who've been here for years
>> >>>>> providing organic produce and herbal/alternative health items 
>> as a
>> >>>>> choice to safeway/albertsons type stores. i'm sure the store 
>> will
>> >>>>> look good from the new federal courthouse being built across the
>> >>>>> stre et. way to go eugene..
>> >>>>> susi
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> on 3/18/06 12:38 PM, Gerry at mesmo at gilanet.com wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> The wealth in America is staggering, unprecidented in human
>> >>>>>> history.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> And so is the debt...The new bu dget bill, courtesy of the
>> >>>>>> conservatives in the white house, adds $30K for every man, 
>> woman,
>> >>>>>> and child. Need an economic boom? Increase the credit card 
>> limits
>> >>>>>> by 50% and watch the dow rise.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> After all a tomato is a tomato is a tomato. What is the 
>> opposite
>> >>>>>> of organic anyway, inorganic?
>> >>>>>> Pesticides can be washed off. Who would find it more desirable 
>> to
>> >>>>>> share the food supply with insects than wash their produce with
>> >>>>>> soap and water? Often shoppers will turn up their noses at any
>> >>>>>> evidence of insect bites which are inevitable without some form
>> >>>>>> of an insecticide shield.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Frances, when you go out on a limb like this I for one wonder 
>> if
>> >>>>>> you really know anything about food or not. The chemically 
>> grown,
>> >>>>>> thick-skin ned, pulpy crap that passes for a tomato at the 
>> local
>> >>>>>> super market compared to a real heirl oom fruit grown in 
>> mineral
>> >>>>>> rich soil is like night and day. Lab studies reveal that 
>> organic
>> >>>>>> means about 35 to 40% more nutrition. Have you lost your t aste
>> >>>>>> buds, girl? The opposite of organic is chemical. Sharing the 
>> food
>> >>>>>> supply with insects is the natural and inescapable way. But in 
>> a
>> >>>>>> typical row of say 50 plants, the insects will only eat those
>> >>>>>> which are the runts of the litter. The biggest, healthiest 
>> plants
>> >>>>>> ward them off. The real enemy of tomato plants is the big green
>> >>>>>> cutworms who eat the whole plant before it makes fruit. These
>> >>>>>> must be removed by hand (wear a glove). Kids like this activity
>> >>>>>> and generally do a good job since the plants are at eye level 
>> to
>> >>>>>> them . Most likely any bites on the surface of the fruit are 
>> from
>> >>>>>> birds. Even the tomatoes at the health food outlets in winter 
>> are
>> >>>>>> quite pulpy and often thick-skinned. Hydrophonically grown 
>> fruit
>> >>>>>> is to me tasteless and weird.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> As we speak I am starting tomato plants inside, about 7 
>> varieties
>> >>>>>> this year. They won't go into the ground until after the frost
>> >>>>>> threat (mid May). The rows they will occupy are currently
>> >>>>>> sporting a crop of winter whea t which will be plowed under in 
>> a
>> >>>>>> few weeks, adding to the micro-organism base below which is fed
>> >>>>>> by layers of cow manure, straw, and leaves which have been down
>> >>>>>> there cooking since mid January, kept damp by buried soak hose.
>> >>>>>> Lots of worms already on the scene.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The tomato plants will be transplanted in a double handful of
>> >>>>>> fresh compost, then topped by a cage of hogwire. Around the 
>> cages
>> >>>>>> I will string an agricultural fabric (agribon) which covers the
>> >>>>>> cage and creates an environment which keeps out the bugs and 
>> some
>> >>>>>> of the UV rays as well as the wind, completely covered. Also
>> >>>>>> helps keep them warm at night, a big plus in the desert. The
>> >>>>>> result is soft-skinned fruits which knock your socks off at the
>> >>>>>> fi rst bite. The surplus is cut into thin strips and dried in a
>> >>>>>> dehydrator for use in winter. The thinner the strip the less
>> >>>>>> electricity it takes to dry. You can a lso dry them in the sun,
>> >>>>>> laid out on a flat surface covered with agribon to keep the 
>> flies
>> >>>>>> off. The machine is quicker and produces more uniform results.
>> >>>>>> Most of last year's crop is now gone, consumed in soups or 
>> added
>> >>>>>> to essene bread dough. Long live tomatoes!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> You can find cooperatives on the internet which will sell you
>> >>>>>> packaged and dried organic produce at a decent price. Organize
>> >>>>>> some friends and buy it bulk. As for the fresh stuff, court a
>> >>>>>> neighbor with a garden, or, heaven forbid, learn to grow it
>> >>>>>> yourself. Lots of little old ladies in my community who thrive 
>> on
>> >>>>>> and with their gardens. Even the patio style of gardening beats
>> >>>>>> paying an ar m and a leg for inferior food at the markets.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> In defense of Whole Foods, it does take more care and thus 
>> hands
>> >>>>>> on labor to grow good veggies. Hopefully some of the exorbitant
>> >>>>>> price you pay goes to trabajeros from Mexico who do the work 
>> that
>> >>>>>> puts the food on our tables. A friend of mine signed a contract
>> >>>>>> with WF recently to grow winter squash for them this year. He
>> >>>>>> gets $.6 0 a pound. It will sell for over $2.00  a pound
>> >>>>>> eventually. But WF sends trucks down here to pick it up and 
>> haul
>> >>>>>> it ABQ/Santa Fe, something he cannot do. I will pick around his
>> >>>>>> field and score some good fruits--or wait and take the ones 
>> which
>> >>>>>> are not cosmetically acceptable for the WF shelves (tast e the
>> >>>>>> same).
>> >>>>>> G
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>> From: Frances Morey  
>> >>>>>>> To: Jane Walker  
>> >>>>>>> Cc: Austin List  
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 9:20 AM
>> >>>>>>> Subject: [AGL] Re: [FedUp] A couple of items for the grocery
>> >>>>>>> discussion...
>> >>>>>>> Hi, Jane,
>> >>>>>>> I can credit you with the early-on info on Whole Foods....
>> >>>>>>> Write once in a while.
>> >>>>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>>> Frances
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Frances Morey wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> One early-on employee told me that first-time-shoppers at WF
>> >>>>>>>> would cruise the lanes and fill up their baskets as usual 
>> only
>> >>>>>>>> to find that the total after check-out was as much as double
>> >>>>>>>> what they were used to paying. On many occasions, she told 
>> me,
>> >>>>>>>> such shoppers would turn away and leave their full grocery
>> >>>>>>>> basket behind without paying, stunned from market shock.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Whole Foods is more about conspicous consumption than anthing
>> >>>>>>>> else.
>> >>>>>>>> The wealth in America is staggering, unprecidented in human
>> >>>>>>>> history. Any venue for showing it off is embraced, even 
>> grocer y
>> >>>>>>>> shopping. I go to WF as I would to a restaurant and think of 
>> it
>> >>>>>>>> as the biggest deli on earth. I'm glad to know that WF pays
>> >>>>>>>> well, which not always reflects in employee attention to
>> >>>>>>>> customers. I discontinued using Celes tial Seasoning tea 
>> when I
>> >>>>>>>> saw a mention in a business zine that bragged about their
>> >>>>>>>> paying minimum wage.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for turning us on to the Johnson Farm on Holly St. I 
>> saw
>> >>>>>>>> it and thought it was some kind of community garden. I paid 
>> $4
>> >>>>>>>> .50 last Wednesday for their smallest brownie and two little
>> >>>>>>>> turnips at Boggy Creek Farm, paying for the the chance to see
>> >>>>>>>> their chickens, old timey garden and hob nobbing more than 
>> for
>> >>>>>>>> the food. The boquet of snapdragons cost as much as a similar
>> >>>>>>>> sized boquet of roses at HEB.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I preferred Trader Toms (or something like that) when I was 
>> in
>> >>>>>>>> San Francisco. It was kinda like a chain of Wheatsville 
>> Co-ops
>> >>>>>>>> with even more reasonable pricing. Before Alamo Drafthouse
>> >>>>>>>> South captured the old Fiesta, nee City Market, location on 
>> S.
>> >>>>>>>> Lamar I envisioned a Tom's as a kick ass competitor to both 
>> WF,
>> >>>>>>>> Central Market and Wheatsville. Ah, no luck. They only 
>> operate
>> >>>>>>>> on the West Coast and up East.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Frances Morey
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Sherry Coldsmith wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> The first link is to an article that rags on Whole Foods. 
>>  The
>> >>>>>>>>> second
>> >>>>>>>>> link may be of interest to Austinites who really do want to 
>> buy
>> >>>>>>>>> locally.  I get my veg from Johns on's and the quality if
>> >>>>>>>>> superb.   Tho
>> >>>>>>>>> you have some control over what they bring you in the 
>> weekly or
>> >>>>>>>>> bi-weekly box, you'll also get some exotics, like kohlrabi,
>> >>>>>>>>> which will
>> >>>>>>>>> require you to sha rpen your culinary skills and look up a 
>> few
>> >>>>>>>>> recipes.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Sherry
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.slate.com/id/2138176/
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.localharvest.org/farms/M12509
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Hey you - we like you being here!  But, if you don't wanna,
>> >>>>>>>> send an email to:
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>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> SPONSORED LINKS
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>> >>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>> s=72&.sig=L_nTbiwrMlR3voj2LpFqJA> Cause and effect essay
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> k=Cause+and+effect+essay&w1=Bill+clinton&
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>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
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