Another Rendition

[Pepi Plowman]

On a couple of subjects:

As for Christians being silent, I disagree.  Even
though I'm not a Christian, there are a couple of
sites who contact me to call senators or sign
petitions on various issues:  genocide in Darfur; the
initiation of the Clean Air Act (which actually gives
more latitude rather than less to the plants putting
most of the crap in the air); not getting Gonzalez
approved as AG; not allowing rendition (sending people
to places like Egypt to get tortured), and on and on. 
Those sites are Sojourners and Faith Based America. 
They are anti-Bush and anti war in Iraq.  The
Sojourners came up with the bumper sticker that said
"God Is Not a Republican (or a Democrat)".  More and
more Christians are seeing where the real axis of evil
lies, thanks to folks like these.

And Ramsey, I agree with you about our needing to
stick together.  I have a feeling there will be a lot
coming down in the next five years, much of which has
already been predicted, especially energy-wise, and I
think probably a lot more that we can't predict. 
Contingencies need to be established--networks
reinforced.  Lucky we know people in other countries.
pep
--- Harry Edwards <laughingwolf at ev1.net> wrote:

> As a recovering Baptist I'd have to agree.  There
> are a few goodhearted 
> christians out there: Jimmy Carter and Bill Moyers
> come to mind.  (And 
> Frances Morey too).  But the deafening silence we're
> hearing is that of 
> all the true christians, churches and churchgoers. 
> A plague on 
> monotheism!         twisty dodds
> 
> 
> On Mar 9, 2005, at 10:16 AM, Clark Santos wrote:
> 
> > Frances,
> > 	You sure weren't born in the Baptist church,
> where it was an outright 
> > sin to shop anywhere but HEBs. Do you really think
> Christianity and 
> > religions were founded to save souls and get
> people closer to God.
> > 	Think how much more your car registration would
> cost without free 
> > license plates.
> >
> > EL PATRON	
> >
> > On Mar 9, 2005, at 1:12 AM, Frances Morey wrote:
> >
> > Ramsey,
> > I'm scared, too. Just when we can't believe
> anything worse can happen, 
> > it does. I feel that the Know-Nothings led by the
> Neocons, rather than 
> > the christians, are the real weapons of our
> national destruction. It 
> > isn't christian to withhold stem cell
> research depriving countless 
> > people who would benefit from it. It isn't
> christian to incarcerate 
> > more people than any nation on earth! It isn't
> christian to run a 
> > government for the protection of the rich to the
> detriment of the 
> > majority of the populace, rejecting a hike in
> the minimum wage, which 
> > 60% of the voters favor, turning our nation into a
> mean spirited, 
> > angry, punitive and heartless place. That
> marijuana is cynically kept 
> > illegal because the war on drugs feeds the
> judicial-incarceration 
> > industry is another instance where 60% of the
> people favor 
> > decriminalization and the legislation does not
> reflect the opinion of 
> > the public, indeed, countermands it. Where's the
> democracy?
> > The poor are getting poorer, and can't support
> their churches, so the 
> > "faith based" funding props them up, in exchange
> for delivering the 
> > vote. That ain't christian, it's an insidious plot
> to control the 
> > population as it squeezes them from middle class
> into poverty, while 
> > the rich bask in greedy triumph with tax cuts.
> > Christianity hasn't sold out, the churches that
> cloak themselves in 
> > it have. There is a difference.
> > From being on the road, Katfish
> reinforced what we tend to take for 
> > granted--that we live in a kind of rarified social
> hothouse here in 
> > Austin. Most of the country is the way he and
> Della found it and 
> > reported it to us. I don't feel so bad about
> not being able to travel. 
> > I'm just glad I can hang on here.
> > Frances
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >  From: Ramsey Wiggins
> > To: GHETTO2 at LISTS.WHATHELPS.COM
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: Rendition
> >
> > Seems to me every time christians get a lot of
> power, people get 
> > burned at the stake -- to save their souls, of
> course. Power and rigid 
> > ideology produce ever more strenuous coercion
> every time they get 
> > together. If people dissent, more and more power
> is applied, 
> > ratcheting up the level of coercion to torture,
> mass imprisonments, 
> > and finally mass murder.
> >
> > We could also compare the republican putsch to
> Stalin, whose rise to 
> > power had a similar arc: a reform movement -- the
> russian revolution 
> > -- based on a rigid ideology, co-opted by a
> powerful psychopath and 
> > propped up by platitudes about the general welfare
> and fear of enemies 
> > without and within. By the time the secret police
> are disappearing 
> > people, the Stockholm syndrome sets in and
> everybody loves big 
> > brother.
> >
> > We need to start keeping track of one another. The
> way we carry on, it 
> > wouldn't surprise me if one of us woke up in an
> egyptian jail one day.
> >
> > Seriously.
> >
> > RW
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, March 8, 2005, at 07:41 AM, Gerry
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gonzales, the American hero poor boy who made it
> to the top, is lying 
> > through his big white teeth. Will this be his role
> now, apologist for 
> > war crimes? In the New Yorker there is a long,
> in-depth article on 
> > rendition and how since 9/11 the US has sent
> hundreds of prisoners 
> > abroad to be tortured. This practice is, perhaps,
> the most dastardly 
> > of all the practices engaged in by the Bushies and
> Rummy, including 
> > firing on unidentified vehicles occupied by
> Italian journalists. I 
> > guarantee the NY article will make your flesh
> crawl. Now they are 
> > denying it in spite of a ton of evidence to the
> contrary. War 
> > criminals, torturers, christians run amok. They
> are tainting all of us 
> > and digging such a deep hole we may not be able to
> crawl out of it in 
> > our lifetimes.
> > G
> 
>