language poets
Wayne Johnson
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Sat May 22 09:50:33 2004
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Well, I agree that the "language poets" are something of an acquired =
taste. Bear in mind that most of my really favorite poets are not of =
that persuasion, like Robert Duncan or William Stafford or Galway =
Kinnell, but I tried some and I had a lot of fun doing it. Honor, on =
the other hand, is really into the form which entirely suits her =
semi-autobiographical qua historical-feminist tack. =20
wj
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jon Ford=20
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:02 PM
Subject: language poets
Wayne-- I never could get into the language poets. Maybe they are more =
fun to party with than to read. Michael Palmer is probably the most =
accessible, and I read a lot of his work last fall, which is uneven but =
clear and powerful in places. He actually feels things; it's not just =
about language.
Jon
>From: "Wayne Johnson" <cadaobh@shentel.net>=20
>Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
>To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>=20
>Subject: Re: Re:Julia K.=20
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:34:42 -0400=20
>=20
>Jon. I think the thing I like most about Kristeva is her passion for =
the=20
>subject. I have read around the Frog Literary scene, Barthes, =
Derrida,=20
>Foucault, Lacan, Levi-Strauss, Saussure, et al for about twenty =
years. Some=20
>write well, some reason well, some do neither, some are=20
>hysterical...actually many are hysterical. Same for many acolytes, =
like=20
>Jonathan Culler. But they have the advantage of not being more=20
>Harvard-Oxford clones, they are more like Socio-linguists and I like =
that.=20
>It is interesting that one of her major influences was Charles =
Sanders=20
>Pierce!!!*=20
>=20
>Kristeva doesn't have the same "take" on French or German =
phenomenology=20
>(sp?); probably because she is, at heart, a Marxist. Probably why I =
like=20
>her. I also like Terry Eagleton, a Brit critique, for similar =
reasons.=20
>Derrida and Barthes, both, have amazing insights into things; but =
then=20
>really smart people usually do. Don't have to agree with their =
conclusions=20
>and I certainly can not agree with many of their "after market" =
conclusions=20
>pandered about by various American Literati. This is, incidentally,=20
>especially annoying in the Architecture profession, where there is =
more=20
>mis-understanding of French criticism than real knowledge. Roman =
Jacobson=20
>liked Kristeva and we all know who he spawned.=20
>=20
>The most interesting people to work with this material were the SF =
"Language=20
>Poets" in SF like Carla Harryman, Michael Palmer, Barret Watten. And =
they=20
>weren't "slavish" either, picked and chose. Many of these people =
moved off=20
>to UC San Diego. Knew them, read with them, partied with them, liked =
them.=20
>I am probably prejudiced.=20
>=20
>Want to read someone interesting? Read Jerry Fodor.=20
>=20
>Cheers.=20
>=20
>wj=20
>=20
>* Charles Hartshorn (late...I trust...of UT) and, I think Paul=20
>Weiss....essentially stole C.S. Pierce's papers from his, literally =
starvig=20
>French widow. They made their academic reputations and she died in =
poverty.=20
>Pierce, had he known, would probably have killed them both. =
Hartshorn was a=20
>mumbling idiot and Weiss a fool. Personal opinion. Either way, they =
acted=20
>in an evil and despicable fashion toward her.=20
>----- Original Message -----=20
>From: "Jon Ford" <jonmfordster@hotmail.com>=20
>To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>=20
>Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:51 PM=20
>Subject: Re: Re:Julia K.=20
>=20
>=20
> >=20
> > Nothing wrong with being an old hippie-- I am in no way ageist, =
since I=20
> > could be called an old hippie myself. I have just begun to read =
Kristeva,=20
> > and I think her focus on emotion and revolt (not revolt in a =
specific=20
> > ideological dimension, but more as a total perspective on life, =
revolt as=20
> > renewal), as well as her feminist perspective that includes =
motherhood=20
>could=20
> > be classified as rather "old hippie." She is also decidedly=20
>anti-Freudian--=20
> > I never met a hippie yet who liked Freud. I would say she's worth =
reading=20
> > more than two pages before dismissing her. I intend to read more.=20
> >=20
> > Jon=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > >From: "Wayne Johnson" <cadaobh@shentel.net>=20
> > >Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
> > >To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>=20
> > >Subject: Re: Re:Julia K.=20
> > >Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:40:08 -0400=20
> > >=20
> > >So, Jon, are you using the phrase "old hippie" in a=20
>pejorative=20
> > sense?=20
> > >=20
> > >Some people, who were once "young hippies", had some =
rather=20
> > interesting experiences and made some rather intriguing =
contributions to=20
>our=20
> > culture, some good, some bad. Many actually contributed a great =
deal to=20
> > visual and poetic arts, music, intellectual culture and, egad, =
computer=20
> > programming.=20
> > >=20
> > >Alas, I guess you mean aging erases all in America, leaving =
all=20
> > "good" things in the hands of.....others.=20
> > >=20
> > >wj=20
> > >=20
> > >btw. Have you actually read anything Kristeva has written?=20
> > > ----- Original Message -----=20
> > > From: Jon Ford=20
> > > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:24 PM=20
> > > Subject: Re:Julia K.=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > Michael-- sorry you didn't get past page two, but here is =
an=20
> > interview with Julia which might set you right. She sounds like an =
old=20
> > hippie to me!=20
> > >=20
> > > JON=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > Julia Kristeva is a world famous semiotician, =
feminist=20
> > theorist, psychoanalyst and at the same time an interesting =
creative=20
>writer.=20
> > She was born in Bulgaria in 1941, but came to Paris in 1965 where =
she=20
>became=20
> > immersed in Parisian intellectual life. Her acclaimed novel =
"Les=20
> > Samou=EFs" (1990) analyzes the Parisian intellectual =
avant-garde to=20
>which=20
> > she has belonged ever since. And though psychoanalysis remains one =
of the=20
> > major orienting and formative=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > An Interview with Julia Kristeva=20
> > >=20
> > > by Nina Zivancevici=20
> > >=20
> > > Parisian intellectual avant-garde to which she has =
belonged=20
> > ever since. And though psychoanalysis remains one of the major =
orienting=20
>and=20
> > formative dimensions of her work, especially as regards her =
reflections=20
>upon=20
> > the nature of the feminine, she has also continued her research on =
the=20
> > nature of language and examined the processes leading to the =
emergence of=20
> > the work of art. As the theorist John Lechte points out, " =
because of=20
> > the intimate link between art and the formation of subjectivity, =
Kristeva=20
> > has always found art to be a particularly fruitful basis for =
analysis.=20
> > " Since the 1960s, she has=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > been a leading force in the critique of =
representation and=20
>her=20
> > most recent book is a critical study of Colette's work and life, =
that is=20
>to=20
> > say, one of the numerous projects that she has been energetically =
working=20
> > on.=20
> > >=20
> > > Q: When did you start getting interested in the =
notion of the=20
> > "feminine"? Was it with the exploration of the notion of =
>=D2chora=D3or=20
> > the female voice in linguistics and semiology? Or rather, from =
that point=20
>on=20
> > how have you arrived at the so-called feminist studies and writing =
> > understood in terms of their sociological and/or aesthetic =
significance?=20
> > >=20
> > > J.Kristeva: It is very difficult to trace back my =
interest in=20
> > the "feminine". I suppose that at the very moment in =
which I=20
> > started asking questions about myself the question of the =
=D2feminine=D3 had=20
> > already been formulated in my mind, so one could say perhaps it =
started in=20
> > the period of my adolescence when I became interested in =
literature which=20
> > necessarily asks questions about the sexual differences. But, you =
are=20
>right,=20
> > in my theoretical work, this question is raised in a more succinct =
manner,=20
> > perhaps also more discreet one, but which was nevertheless very =
intense=20
> > >=20
> > > It must be said that this question is related to the =
notion=20
>of=20
> > "chora" which directs us back to the archaic state of =
language .=20
> > This state is known to a child who is in a state of osmosis with =
his/her=20
> > mother during which language manifests itself as co-lalia , a =
melodic=20
> > alliteration that precedes the introduction of signs within a =
syntactic=20
> > order. The period during which I started developing this notion =
was that=20
>of=20
> > the writing of my Ph.D on the avant-garde of the 19th century =
(Mallarm=E8=20
>and=20
> > Lautreeamont) and I had understood how much of that, what we call=20
> > hermiticism in literature, is connected to the rehabilitation, =
more or=20
>less=20
> > conscious, of that archaic language. By the way, I was also at =
that time=20
> > undergoing an analysis myself, and so became convinced that what =
we have=20
> > discussed was really true.=20
> > >=20
> > > Q: Is it difficult to "abandon" or at least =
to set=20
> > aside one's mother tongue and write in another language ?=20
> > >=20
> > > Kristeva: No, I haven't had the impression that I had =
>abandoned=20
> > my mother tongue by coming to France because I had learnt French =
when I=20
>was=20
> > four or five and had been bilingual. It is true though that the =
transition=20
> > from one mother tongue to the other is a real matricide =
particularly when=20
> > one ends up expressing himself only in this second language and =
one=D5s=20
> > rapport to the first one remains extremely limited, which is my =
case, but=20
>it=20
> > didn=D5t happen with me in that era (of coming to France). It was =
quite a=20
> > gradual change.=20
> > >=20
> > > Q: Given the fact that you have written a lot about =
the=20
> > importance of the so-called "sick" states of mind, could =
you=20
>tell=20
> > us whether they are related in any way to Art ? Would you see Art =
as the=20
> > means of healing them or do you see it as an independent entity? =
Is Art a=20
> > sort of "love" for you (the way Freud would have it) and =
a sort=20
>of=20
> > human cure?=20
> > >=20
> > > Kristeva: It has always shocked commentators when I =
affirm my=20
> > agreement with the ancient Greeks who viewed art as catharsis or=20
> > purification and I would add that it is a sort of sublimation for =
the=20
> > "borderline" states, in the broadest sense of the term, =
that is,=20
> > it comprises those characterized by fragility. If we analyze =
contemporary=20
> > art, we get the impression that two types of fragility are =
examined by=20
> > contemporary artists. On one hand, we have perversion, that is, =
all sorts=20
>of=20
> > sexual transgressions. To this effect, it is enough to just browse =
through=20
> > contemporary books or simply look at the "culture" pages =
of=20
> > "Lib=E8ration" which review exhibitions to see that the =
form and=20
>the=20
> > content of the experience serve as means of overcoming these =
states. They=20
> > testify to the existence of these states, as well as that of a =
certain=20
> > desire to make them public, or even share them with others, that =
is, to=20
>take=20
> > them out of their closet which is! a soothing action after all =
despite its=20
> > commercial aspect since one turns a "shameful thing" =
into=20
> > something positive. So you see, here we have something that =
transcends the=20
> > notion of "cure" and is at times something gratifying.=20
> > >=20
> > > Q: Does contemporary art have to do with Voyeurism, =
as is the=20
> > case with the most recent literature nowadays which purports to =
describe=20
>the=20
> > most intimate states of the body and the soul ?=20
> > >=20
> > > Kristeva: Absolutely! This is ever the case with =
literature=20
>and=20
> > when it does not try to treat perversion, it is deals with =
psychotic=20
>states,=20
> > that is, the states of identity loss, the loss of language, the =
borderline=20
> > cases which cohabit and coexist with delirium and violence, but =
all of=20
>this=20
> > does not have to bear the imprint of something negative. Some =
think that=20
> > these works are scandal-oriented, others think that they rejoice =
in=20
>ugliness=20
> > , yes, certainly there are elements of such orientations in them, =
but, on=20
> > the other hand, the existence of these works is also a research -- =
often=20
>in=20
> > a very specific manner -- on the anticipation of difficulty of =
living. And=20
> > Art can play an important role here since it can contribute to a =
certain=20
> > creative assumption of such a difficulty. Nevertheless, I =
personally=20
>remain=20
> > a bit skeptical of a certain drift or tendency of contemporary art =
to=20
> > content itself with such, so I believe, feeble appropri! ations of =
these=20
> > traumatic states. We remain here at the level of the statement of =
the=20
> > clinical cases with an almost documentary style photography of =
these cases=20
> > wherein the investment and the effort made in the exploration of =
new forms=20
> > or new thoughts remains less visible. So, it is something =
regrettable=20
>which=20
> > every so often leaves me with the impression that when I visit =
museums or=20
> > read certain art books, I am looking into psychoanalytic or even=20
>psychiatric=20
> > archives. But, perhaps this is an indispensable experience.=20
> > >=20
> > > Q: But you haven't always felt this way- we remember =
the time=20
> > when you wrote about Bellini=C9=20
> > >=20
> > > Kristeva: That's right, I haven't always felt this =
way --=20
>this=20
> > is a very particular moment in art history which deepened and =
probed a=20
> > certain aspect of a widespread existential malaise and discontent =
while=20
> > neglecting the possibility of its overcoming.=20
> > >=20
> > > Q: Well, along this line, you wrote in "Tales of =
> > Love" that "the psychoanalytic couch is the only place =
where the=20
> > social contract authorizes explicitly psychoanalytic =
investigation, but=20
> > "leaves Love out of it." However, we find this type of=20
> > investigation in literature and art as well. You have recently =
analyzed=20
>the=20
> > "investigation" of the writer Colette whose work deals=20
>extensively=20
> > with love and emotions. Why Colette ?=20
> > >=20
> > > Kristeva: Why Colette? Because in my trilogy on the =
feminine=20
> > genius I tried to analyze the works of two dramatic women who =
represent=20
>the=20
> > tragic aspect of our (20th) century, Hanna Arendt's on=20
> > "Totalitarianism" and Melanie Klein's on psychosis, =
especially=20
> > children's psychosis, and it seemed to me important (not only to =
me=20
> > personally but also for the sake of objectivity) to pay homage to =
the=20
>other=20
> > aspect of our civilization which is notably our century's source =
of joy,=20
> > that is, the feminist liberation and "joie de vivre". =
And=20
>Colette=20
> > excels in that appropriation of the national language in which she =
>delights=20
> > and leads to paroxysms of beauty that trace a path which goes =
beyond the=20
> > scandal of a woman who asserts her liberty and authority. So, for =
me, she=20
> > has become indispensable.=20
> > >=20
> > > Q: In your novel "Les Samoura.s" you have =
shown a=20
> > great literary talent and a certain sense of humor which is =
certainly=20
> > lacking in your analytic work. Why have you stopped your literary=20
> > production, that is to say, writing of novels ?=20
> > >=20
> > > Kristeva: Oh, I haven't stopped it for after =
"Les=20
> > Samoura.s" I wrote "The old man the wolves," then=20
> > "Possesions," and now I am going to write yet another =
thriller=20
> > which will be called, as it seems now, "Our Byzantium". =
I=D5d like=20
> > to continue writing in this polar style and with a certain =
political=20
> > motivation. It will be concerned with the possibility -- or the=20
> > impossibility -- of unifying Eastern Europe with Western Europe. =
It will=20
> > deal with the Crusades and in it the modern characters would =
reveal their=20
> > ancestors who had been in the Crusades, a catastrophic enterprise =
which=20
> > eventually failed as you know, but which has been in its essence =
an=20
>attempt=20
> > at unifying Europe, an unhappy attempt though. So, I am going to =
ask a=20
> > question about the tragedy of this Europe which is now divided, =
and also=20
> > this would be a way for me to visit my orthodox origins where I'd =
also=20
> > attempt to revive some of my childhood souvenirs.=20
> > >=20
> > > Q: That's right, the area of Eastern or Central =
Europe really=20
> > belongs to "Byzantium".=20
> > >=20
> > > Kristeva: Yes, we are Byzantium, that is, the =
Balkans, and I=20
>am=20
> > very proud of the fact that I come from that region. And that's =
something=20
> > which is unknown to the West. While it is true that what has =
survived of=20
> > Byzantium is in a state of cultural decadence and terrible =
economic=20
>poverty=20
> > with nothing in it that could seduce the Westerners, it is =
indisputably=20
>the=20
> > treasure of our rich historical memory that is reflected, as far =
as I can=20
> > see, in the dignified sensitivity of people who don=D5t ask for =
anything but=20
> > the minimum allowing them to continue living as the well-educated =
and=20
>highly=20
> > intelligent men and women who should be less exposed to mentally=20
>exhausting=20
> > pangs of melancholy and the socially debilitating impact of the =
economic=20
> > predominance of the mafia that is the case nowadays.=20
> > >=20
> > > Q: In your novel "Possesions" you started =
something=20
> > quite interesting, something that you stopped pursuing after =
having=20
>written=20
> > the first chapter though, and that particular thing is the =
psychoanalysis=20
>of=20
> > art which also includes that of the artists and their respective =
works.=20
> > Would it be possible to pursue research in this particular field, =
namely,=20
>an=20
> > analysis of the history of art by following different works of art =
from=20
> > different epochs?=20
> > >=20
> > > Kristeva: I have really enjoyed myself writing about =
these=20
> > different works of art, notably, on representations of =
decapitation, and I=20
> > believe that the novel as genre, especially thriller which is an =
open=20
>genre=20
> > and completely renewable allows for this type of digression in =
writing.=20
>But=20
> > they have severely criticized me for it and told me that the book =
was too=20
> > intellectual, very brainy and that the reader who wanted to know =
how the=20
> > crime was being developed and the murder had to suffer by having =
had to=20
> > wait. That was the malevolent reaction of those who have known me =
as an=20
> > intellectual and who did not like the fact that I was going to =
write=20
>novels.=20
> > So, there is a certain tendency in France, or perhaps elsewhere =
too, to=20
>put=20
> > labels on people- if you are a teacher, remain a teacher, and if =
you are a=20
> > writer, remain a writer, but the two of them at the same time- =
that you=20
> > cannot be! So, perhaps I will continue in that direction , that ! =
of novel=20
> > writing, I don't know. I have just finished the book about =
Colette, and my=20
> > new thriller is still in notes and scratches, it is not =
articulated yet,=20
>but=20
> > I am not sure that the fragments which deal with the so-called =
esthetic=20
> > problems are excluded from it. It is true we cannot insert a =
dissertation=20
>in=20
> > a novel, but perhaps we could set a basis there for it.=20
> > >=20
> > > Q: I believe that one could read your book "The =
Intimate=20
> > Revolt" in the light of your dialogue with Hannah Arendt. In =
fact,=20
>she=20
> > was the one who has spoken of the misery of human beings who are =
not=20
>allowed=20
> > to have "contemplative" ( read creative) life and who =
are thus=20
> > condemned to lead an "active" life, that is, to have a =
miserable=20
> > job. Is it the problem of our times that there exist such =
individuals who=20
> > revolt against the fact that they cannot realize themselves? That =
is, who=20
> > are angst-ridden and end up revolting against themselves?=20
> > >=20
> > > Kristeva: I believe that you were right to make such=20
> > assumptions about my eventual dialogue with Hannah Arendt -- I =
have been=20
> > reading her work for quite a while and I'd say, in all modesty, =
that a lot=20
> > of my writing, consciously or unconsciously, is tied to her =
thought . The=20
> > idea of "revolt" was an effort to put myself in =
relationship=20
>with=20
> > what we hear as "her own thinking" which, following =
Heidegger's,=20
> > opposes and relativizes calculative reasoning. As she was very =
attentive=20
>to=20
> > the work of Heidegger, she conceived of thinking as an inquiry, as =
an=20
> > interrogatory process and opposed herself to the calculative =
framework=20
>which=20
> > structures and characterizes contemporary behavior. My work has =
found=20
>itself=20
> > a bit within this horizon but I also derived my experience from =
the=20
> > psychoanalytical approach which relativizes everyone's identity as =
well as=20
> > his/her past. Moreover, I derived my experience from literary =
works, such=20
>as=20
> > Proust's "Reche! rche de temps perdu;" for instance, =
from his=20
> > flexing of language, metaphors and the syntax. I tried to rethink =
the=20
>mental=20
> > disposition which helps us carry on, the one which is not a mere=20
>repetition=20
> > of a cliche, something which is like an act of rebirth, that is, =
rebirth=20
> > which our thinking re-examines together with our interior life as =
well as=20
> > the very opening of the inquiry. This is what I take =
"revolt" to=20
> > be. So, it is neither an expression of simple existential anguish =
nor=20
> > contesting a socio-political order, but re-establishment of things =
which=20
>we=20
> > start again. And, in this sense, revolt which engulfs the psychic =
space is=20
>a=20
> > form of life, be it the state of being in love, or an act of =
aesthetic=20
> > creation or a project that could imply a very modest activity but =
which=20
> > allows you to re-examine your past, that is, to interrogate it and =
renew=20
>it.=20
> > And I believe that we have very few occasions in our daily lives =
which are=20
> > quite standardized and banalized to work in that direction. ! The =
work=20
>that=20
> > we do implies usually a repetition, the accomplishment o f a given =
task.=20
>The=20
> > type of mental functioning which I call "revolt" is =
something=20
>that=20
> > we lack and it is very dangerous because if it is lacking, we risk =
> > confronting two prospective pitfalls: one of them is =
'somatization' when=20
>the=20
> > psychic space closes itself off and the conflict manifests itself =
as=20
>bodily=20
> > illness or, in the other situation, we get into violence, =
vandalism and=20
> > wars. So, Vive la R=E8volte !=20
> > >=20
> > > Interview conducted by Nina Zivancevic, In Paris, =
March-April=20
> > 2001=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > >From: "Michael Eisenstadt"=20
><michaele@HotPOP.com>=20
> > > >Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
> > > >To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>=20
> > > >Subject: Re: Win this lovely watch or left is right and =
right=20
>is=20
> > left=20
> > > >Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:30:21 -0600=20
> > > >=20
> > > >Wayne wrote:=20
> > > >=20
> > > > > Oh. Go and find thyself a New Genre, Kristeva.=20
> > > > > (One of Mike E. mostest favorite philosophers. =
Right,=20
> > Mike?)=20
> > > >=20
> > > >just to prove that i am reading your inspired spritzes =
i must=20
> > > >acknowledge that i know of and have read at least 2 =
pages=20
> > > >by Julia Kristeva.=20
> > > >=20
> > > >she is a French intellectual from Eastern Yerp and =
writes=20
> > > >unreadable literary criticism some of which has =
unfortunately=20
> > > >been translated into English.=20
> > > >=20
> > > >are you a leftie or a rightie, Wayne? wondering whether =
yule=20
> > > >be wearing the Chinese mickey mouse watch on your left=20
> > > >wrist (if a rightie) or the right (if a leftie)=20
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
=
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------=
----=20
>------=20
> > > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any =
Web=20
>page -=20
> > FREE download!=20
> >=20
> > _________________________________________________________________=20
> > Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League =
Baseball=20
> > Gameday Audio! =
http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, I agree that the "language poets" =
are=20
something of an acquired taste. Bear in mind that most of my =
really=20
favorite poets are not of that persuasion, like Robert Duncan or William =
Stafford or Galway Kinnell, but I tried some and I had a lot of fun =
doing=20
it. Honor, on the other hand, is really into the form which =
entirely suits=20
her semi-autobiographical qua historical-feminist tack. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>wj</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Djonmfordster@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:jonmfordster@hotmail.com">Jon=20
Ford</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 21, 2004 =
11:02 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> language poets</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3DRTE>
<P>Wayne-- I never could get into the language poets. Maybe they are =
more fun=20
to party with than to read. Michael Palmer is probably the most =
accessible,=20
and I read a lot of his work last fall, which is uneven but clear and =
powerful=20
in places. He actually feels things; it's not just about language.</P>
<P><BR>Jon<BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Wayne Johnson" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:cadaobh@shentel.net">cadaobh@shentel.net</A>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
<DIV></DIV>>To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: Re:Julia K.=20
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:34:42 -0400=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Jon. I think the thing I like most about =
Kristeva is=20
her passion for the=20
<DIV></DIV>>subject. I have read around the Frog =
Literary scene,=20
Barthes, Derrida,=20
<DIV></DIV>>Foucault, Lacan, Levi-Strauss, Saussure, et al for =
about twenty=20
years. Some=20
<DIV></DIV>>write well, some reason well, some do neither, some are =
<DIV></DIV>>hysterical...actually many are hysterical. Same for =
many=20
acolytes, like=20
<DIV></DIV>>Jonathan Culler. But they have the advantage =
of not=20
being more=20
<DIV></DIV>>Harvard-Oxford clones, they are more like =
Socio-linguists and I=20
like that.=20
<DIV></DIV>>It is interesting that one of her major influences was =
Charles=20
Sanders=20
<DIV></DIV>>Pierce!!!*=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Kristeva doesn't have the same "take" on French or =
German=20
phenomenology=20
<DIV></DIV>>(sp?); probably because she is, at heart, a=20
Marxist. Probably why I like=20
<DIV></DIV>>her. I also like Terry Eagleton, a Brit =
critique,=20
for similar reasons.=20
<DIV></DIV>>Derrida and Barthes, both, have amazing insights into =
things;=20
but then=20
<DIV></DIV>>really smart people usually do. Don't have =
to agree=20
with their conclusions=20
<DIV></DIV>>and I certainly can not agree with many of their "after =
market"=20
conclusions=20
<DIV></DIV>>pandered about by various American =
Literati. This=20
is, incidentally,=20
<DIV></DIV>>especially annoying in the Architecture profession, =
where there=20
is more=20
<DIV></DIV>>mis-understanding of French criticism than=20
real knowledge. Roman Jacobson=20
<DIV></DIV>>liked Kristeva and we all know who he spawned.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>The most interesting people to work with this material =
were the=20
SF "Language=20
<DIV></DIV>>Poets" in SF like Carla Harryman, Michael Palmer, =
Barret=20
Watten. And they=20
<DIV></DIV>>weren't "slavish" either, picked and =
chose. Many of=20
these people moved off=20
<DIV></DIV>>to UC San Diego. Knew them, read with them, =
partied=20
with them, liked them.=20
<DIV></DIV>>I am probably prejudiced.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Want to read someone interesting? Read Jerry =
Fodor.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Cheers.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>wj=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>* Charles Hartshorn (late...I trust...of =
UT) and, I=20
think Paul=20
<DIV></DIV>>Weiss....essentially stole C.S. Pierce's papers from =
his,=20
literally starvig=20
<DIV></DIV>>French widow. They made their academic =
reputations=20
and she died in poverty.=20
<DIV></DIV>>Pierce, had he known, would probably have killed them=20
both. Hartshorn was a=20
<DIV></DIV>>mumbling idiot and Weiss a fool. Personal=20
opinion. Either way, they acted=20
<DIV></DIV>>in an evil and despicable fashion toward her.=20
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Jon Ford" <jonmfordster@hotmail.com>=20
<DIV></DIV>>To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>=20
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:51 PM=20
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: Re:Julia K.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Nothing wrong with being an old hippie-- I am in =
no way=20
ageist, since I=20
<DIV></DIV>> > could be called an old hippie myself. I have just =
begun=20
to read Kristeva,=20
<DIV></DIV>> > and I think her focus on emotion and revolt (not =
revolt=20
in a specific=20
<DIV></DIV>> > ideological dimension, but more as a total =
perspective on=20
life, revolt as=20
<DIV></DIV>> > renewal), as well as her feminist perspective =
that=20
includes motherhood=20
<DIV></DIV>>could=20
<DIV></DIV>> > be classified as rather "old hippie." She is also =
decidedly=20
<DIV></DIV>>anti-Freudian--=20
<DIV></DIV>> > I never met a hippie yet who liked Freud. I would =
say=20
she's worth reading=20
<DIV></DIV>> > more than two pages before dismissing her. I =
intend to=20
read more.=20
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Jon=20
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;From: &quot;Wayne Johnson&quot;=20
&lt;cadaobh@shentel.net&gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net =
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;To:=20
&lt;austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net&gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;Subject: Re: Re:Julia K.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:40:08 -0400=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;So, Jon, are you using the phrase =
&quot;old=20
hippie&quot; in a=20
<DIV></DIV>>pejorative=20
<DIV></DIV>> > sense?=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;Some people, who were once =
&quot;young=20
hippies&quot;, had some rather=20
<DIV></DIV>> > interesting experiences and made some rather =
intriguing=20
contributions to=20
<DIV></DIV>>our=20
<DIV></DIV>> > culture, some good, some bad. Many =
actually=20
contributed a great deal to=20
<DIV></DIV>> > visual and poetic arts, music, intellectual =
culture and,=20
egad, computer=20
<DIV></DIV>> > programming.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;Alas, I guess you mean aging erases all =
in=20
America, leaving all=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &quot;good&quot; things in the hands=20
of.....others.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;wj=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;btw. Have you actually read =
anything=20
Kristeva has written?=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; ----- Original Message ----- =
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; From: Jon Ford=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; To: =
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 19, =
2004 6:24=20
PM=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; Subject: Re:Julia K.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; Michael-- sorry you didn't =
get past=20
page two, but here is an=20
<DIV></DIV>> > interview with Julia which might set you right. =
She=20
sounds like an old=20
<DIV></DIV>> > hippie to me!=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; JON=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
=
&gt; Julia=
=20
Kristeva is a world famous semiotician, feminist=20
<DIV></DIV>> > theorist, psychoanalyst and at the same time an=20
interesting creative=20
<DIV></DIV>>writer.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > She was born in Bulgaria in 1941, but came to =
Paris in=20
1965 where she=20
<DIV></DIV>>became=20
<DIV></DIV>> > immersed in Parisian intellectual life. Her =
acclaimed=20
novel &quot;Les=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Samou=EFs&quot; (1990) analyzes the Parisian=20
intellectual avant-garde to=20
<DIV></DIV>>which=20
<DIV></DIV>> > she has belonged ever since. And though =
psychoanalysis=20
remains one of the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > major orienting and formative=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
An Interview with Julia Kristeva=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
by Nina Zivancevici=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Parisian intellectual avant-garde to which she has belonged=20
<DIV></DIV>> > ever since. And though psychoanalysis remains one =
of the=20
major orienting=20
<DIV></DIV>>and=20
<DIV></DIV>> > formative dimensions of her work, especially as =
regards=20
her reflections=20
<DIV></DIV>>upon=20
<DIV></DIV>> > the nature of the feminine, she has also =
continued her=20
research on the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > nature of language and examined the processes =
leading to=20
the emergence of=20
<DIV></DIV>> > the work of art. As the theorist John Lechte =
points out,=20
&quot; because of=20
<DIV></DIV>> > the intimate link between art and the formation =
of=20
subjectivity, Kristeva=20
<DIV></DIV>> > has always found art to be a particularly =
fruitful basis=20
for analysis.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &quot; Since the 1960s, she has=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
been a leading force in the critique of representation and=20
<DIV></DIV>>her=20
<DIV></DIV>> > most recent book is a critical study of Colette's =
work=20
and life, that is=20
<DIV></DIV>>to=20
<DIV></DIV>> > say, one of the numerous projects that she has =
been=20
energetically working=20
<DIV></DIV>> > on.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Q: When did you start getting interested in the notion of the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &quot;feminine&quot;? Was it with the =
exploration=20
of the notion of=20
<DIV></DIV>>=D2chora=D3or=20
<DIV></DIV>> > the female voice in linguistics and semiology? Or =
rather,=20
from that point=20
<DIV></DIV>>on=20
<DIV></DIV>> > how have you arrived at the so-called feminist =
studies=20
and writing=20
<DIV></DIV>> > understood in terms of their sociological and/or=20
aesthetic significance?=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
J.Kristeva: It is very difficult to trace back my interest in=20
<DIV></DIV>> > the &quot;feminine&quot;. I suppose that =
at the=20
very moment in which I=20
<DIV></DIV>> > started asking questions about myself the =
question of the=20
=D2feminine=D3 had=20
<DIV></DIV>> > already been formulated in my mind, so one could =
say=20
perhaps it started in=20
<DIV></DIV>> > the period of my adolescence when I became =
interested in=20
literature which=20
<DIV></DIV>> > necessarily asks questions about the sexual =
differences.=20
But, you are=20
<DIV></DIV>>right,=20
<DIV></DIV>> > in my theoretical work, this question is raised =
in a more=20
succinct manner,=20
<DIV></DIV>> > perhaps also more discreet one, but which was=20
nevertheless very intense=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
It must be said that this question is related to the notion=20
<DIV></DIV>>of=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &quot;chora&quot; which directs us back =
to the=20
archaic state of language .=20
<DIV></DIV>> > This state is known to a child who is in a state =
of=20
osmosis with his/her=20
<DIV></DIV>> > mother during which language manifests itself as =
co-lalia=20
, a melodic=20
<DIV></DIV>> > alliteration that precedes the introduction of =
signs=20
within a syntactic=20
<DIV></DIV>> > order. The period during which I started =
developing this=20
notion was that=20
<DIV></DIV>>of=20
<DIV></DIV>> > the writing of my Ph.D on the avant-garde of the =
19th=20
century (Mallarm=E8=20
<DIV></DIV>>and=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Lautreeamont) and I had understood how much of =
that, what=20
we call=20
<DIV></DIV>> > hermiticism in literature, is connected to the=20
rehabilitation, more or=20
<DIV></DIV>>less=20
<DIV></DIV>> > conscious, of that archaic language. By the way, =
I was=20
also at that time=20
<DIV></DIV>> > undergoing an analysis myself, and so became =
convinced=20
that what we have=20
<DIV></DIV>> > discussed was really true.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Q: Is it difficult to &quot;abandon&quot; or at least to set=20
<DIV></DIV>> > aside one's mother tongue and write in another =
language ?=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Kristeva: No, I haven't had the impression that I had=20
<DIV></DIV>>abandoned=20
<DIV></DIV>> > my mother tongue by coming to France because I =
had learnt=20
French when I=20
<DIV></DIV>>was=20
<DIV></DIV>> > four or five and had been bilingual. It is true =
though=20
that the transition=20
<DIV></DIV>> > from one mother tongue to the other is a real =
matricide=20
particularly when=20
<DIV></DIV>> > one ends up expressing himself only in this =
second=20
language and one=D5s=20
<DIV></DIV>> > rapport to the first one remains extremely =
limited, which=20
is my case, but=20
<DIV></DIV>>it=20
<DIV></DIV>> > didn=D5t happen with me in that era (of coming to =
France).=20
It was quite a=20
<DIV></DIV>> > gradual change.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Q: Given the fact that you have written a lot about the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > importance of the so-called =
&quot;sick&quot;=20
states of mind, could you=20
<DIV></DIV>>tell=20
<DIV></DIV>> > us whether they are related in any way to Art ? =
Would you=20
see Art as the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > means of healing them or do you see it as an =
independent=20
entity? Is Art a=20
<DIV></DIV>> > sort of &quot;love&quot; for you (the way =
Freud=20
would have it) and a sort=20
<DIV></DIV>>of=20
<DIV></DIV>> > human cure?=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Kristeva: It has always shocked commentators when I affirm my=20
<DIV></DIV>> > agreement with the ancient Greeks who viewed art =
as=20
catharsis or=20
<DIV></DIV>> > purification and I would add that it is a sort of =
sublimation for the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &quot;borderline&quot; states, in the =
broadest=20
sense of the term, that is,=20
<DIV></DIV>> > it comprises those characterized by fragility. If =
we=20
analyze contemporary=20
<DIV></DIV>> > art, we get the impression that two types of =
fragility=20
are examined by=20
<DIV></DIV>> > contemporary artists. On one hand, we have =
perversion,=20
that is, all sorts=20
<DIV></DIV>>of=20
<DIV></DIV>> > sexual transgressions. To this effect, it is =
enough to=20
just browse through=20
<DIV></DIV>> > contemporary books or simply look at the=20
&quot;culture&quot; pages of=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &quot;Lib=E8ration&quot; which review =
exhibitions=20
to see that the form and=20
<DIV></DIV>>the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > content of the experience serve as means of =
overcoming=20
these states. They=20
<DIV></DIV>> > testify to the existence of these states, as well =
as that=20
of a certain=20
<DIV></DIV>> > desire to make them public, or even share them =
with=20
others, that is, to=20
<DIV></DIV>>take=20
<DIV></DIV>> > them out of their closet which is! a soothing =
action=20
after all despite its=20
<DIV></DIV>> > commercial aspect since one turns a =
&quot;shameful=20
thing&quot; into=20
<DIV></DIV>> > something positive. So you see, here we have =
something=20
that transcends the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > notion of &quot;cure&quot; and is at =
times=20
something gratifying.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Q: Does contemporary art have to do with Voyeurism, as is the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > case with the most recent literature nowadays =
which=20
purports to describe=20
<DIV></DIV>>the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > most intimate states of the body and the soul ?=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Kristeva: Absolutely! This is ever the case with literature=20
<DIV></DIV>>and=20
<DIV></DIV>> > when it does not try to treat perversion, it is =
deals=20
with psychotic=20
<DIV></DIV>>states,=20
<DIV></DIV>> > that is, the states of identity loss, the loss of =
language, the borderline=20
<DIV></DIV>> > cases which cohabit and coexist with delirium and =
violence, but all of=20
<DIV></DIV>>this=20
<DIV></DIV>> > does not have to bear the imprint of something =
negative.=20
Some think that=20
<DIV></DIV>> > these works are scandal-oriented, others think =
that they=20
rejoice in=20
<DIV></DIV>>ugliness=20
<DIV></DIV>> > , yes, certainly there are elements of such =
orientations=20
in them, but, on=20
<DIV></DIV>> > the other hand, the existence of these works is =
also a=20
research -- often=20
<DIV></DIV>>in=20
<DIV></DIV>> > a very specific manner -- on the anticipation of=20
difficulty of living. And=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Art can play an important role here since it can=20
contribute to a certain=20
<DIV></DIV>> > creative assumption of such a difficulty. =
Nevertheless, I=20
personally=20
<DIV></DIV>>remain=20
<DIV></DIV>> > a bit skeptical of a certain drift or tendency of =
contemporary art to=20
<DIV></DIV>> > content itself with such, so I believe, feeble =
appropri!=20
ations of these=20
<DIV></DIV>> > traumatic states. We remain here at the level of =
the=20
statement of the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > clinical cases with an almost documentary style=20
photography of these cases=20
<DIV></DIV>> > wherein the investment and the effort made in the =
exploration of new forms=20
<DIV></DIV>> > or new thoughts remains less visible. So, it is =
something=20
regrettable=20
<DIV></DIV>>which=20
<DIV></DIV>> > every so often leaves me with the impression that =
when I=20
visit museums or=20
<DIV></DIV>> > read certain art books, I am looking into =
psychoanalytic=20
or even=20
<DIV></DIV>>psychiatric=20
<DIV></DIV>> > archives. But, perhaps this is an indispensable=20
experience.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Q: But you haven't always felt this way- we remember the time=20
<DIV></DIV>> > when you wrote about Bellini=C9=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Kristeva: That's right, I haven't always felt this way --=20
<DIV></DIV>>this=20
<DIV></DIV>> > is a very particular moment in art history which =
deepened=20
and probed a=20
<DIV></DIV>> > certain aspect of a widespread existential =
malaise and=20
discontent while=20
<DIV></DIV>> > neglecting the possibility of its overcoming.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Q: Well, along this line, you wrote in &quot;Tales of=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Love&quot; that &quot;the psychoanalytic =
couch is=20
the only place where the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > social contract authorizes explicitly =
psychoanalytic=20
investigation, but=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &quot;leaves Love out of it.&quot; =
However, we=20
find this type of=20
<DIV></DIV>> > investigation in literature and art as well. You =
have=20
recently analyzed=20
<DIV></DIV>>the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &quot;investigation&quot; of the writer =
Colette=20
whose work deals=20
<DIV></DIV>>extensively=20
<DIV></DIV>> > with love and emotions. Why Colette ?=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Kristeva: Why Colette? Because in my trilogy on the feminine=20
<DIV></DIV>> > genius I tried to analyze the works of two =
dramatic women=20
who represent=20
<DIV></DIV>>the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > tragic aspect of our (20th) century, Hanna =
Arendt's on=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &quot;Totalitarianism&quot; and Melanie =
Klein's=20
on psychosis, especially=20
<DIV></DIV>> > children's psychosis, and it seemed to me =
important (not=20
only to me=20
<DIV></DIV>> > personally but also for the sake of objectivity) =
to pay=20
homage to the=20
<DIV></DIV>>other=20
<DIV></DIV>> > aspect of our civilization which is notably our =
century's=20
source of joy,=20
<DIV></DIV>> > that is, the feminist liberation and =
&quot;joie de=20
vivre&quot;. And=20
<DIV></DIV>>Colette=20
<DIV></DIV>> > excels in that appropriation of the national =
language in=20
which she=20
<DIV></DIV>>delights=20
<DIV></DIV>> > and leads to paroxysms of beauty that trace a =
path which=20
goes beyond the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > scandal of a woman who asserts her liberty and =
authority.=20
So, for me, she=20
<DIV></DIV>> > has become indispensable.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Q: In your novel &quot;Les Samoura.s&quot; you have shown a=20
<DIV></DIV>> > great literary talent and a certain sense of =
humor which=20
is certainly=20
<DIV></DIV>> > lacking in your analytic work. Why have you =
stopped your=20
literary=20
<DIV></DIV>> > production, that is to say, writing of novels ?=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Kristeva: Oh, I haven't stopped it for after &quot;Les=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Samoura.s&quot; I wrote &quot;The old man =
the=20
wolves,&quot; then=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &quot;Possesions,&quot; and now I am =
going to=20
write yet another thriller=20
<DIV></DIV>> > which will be called, as it seems now, =
&quot;Our=20
Byzantium&quot;. I=D5d like=20
<DIV></DIV>> > to continue writing in this polar style and with =
a=20
certain political=20
<DIV></DIV>> > motivation. It will be concerned with the =
possibility --=20
or the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > impossibility -- of unifying Eastern Europe with =
Western=20
Europe. It will=20
<DIV></DIV>> > deal with the Crusades and in it the modern =
characters=20
would reveal their=20
<DIV></DIV>> > ancestors who had been in the Crusades, a =
catastrophic=20
enterprise which=20
<DIV></DIV>> > eventually failed as you know, but which has been =
in its=20
essence an=20
<DIV></DIV>>attempt=20
<DIV></DIV>> > at unifying Europe, an unhappy attempt though. =
So, I am=20
going to ask a=20
<DIV></DIV>> > question about the tragedy of this Europe which =
is now=20
divided, and also=20
<DIV></DIV>> > this would be a way for me to visit my orthodox =
origins=20
where I'd also=20
<DIV></DIV>> > attempt to revive some of my childhood souvenirs. =
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Q: That's right, the area of Eastern or Central Europe really=20
<DIV></DIV>> > belongs to &quot;Byzantium&quot;.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Kristeva: Yes, we are Byzantium, that is, the Balkans, and I=20
<DIV></DIV>>am=20
<DIV></DIV>> > very proud of the fact that I come from that =
region. And=20
that's something=20
<DIV></DIV>> > which is unknown to the West. While it is true =
that what=20
has survived of=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Byzantium is in a state of cultural decadence and =
terrible economic=20
<DIV></DIV>>poverty=20
<DIV></DIV>> > with nothing in it that could seduce the =
Westerners, it=20
is indisputably=20
<DIV></DIV>>the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > treasure of our rich historical memory that is =
reflected,=20
as far as I can=20
<DIV></DIV>> > see, in the dignified sensitivity of people who =
don=D5t ask=20
for anything but=20
<DIV></DIV>> > the minimum allowing them to continue living as =
the=20
well-educated and=20
<DIV></DIV>>highly=20
<DIV></DIV>> > intelligent men and women who should be less =
exposed to=20
mentally=20
<DIV></DIV>>exhausting=20
<DIV></DIV>> > pangs of melancholy and the socially debilitating =
impact=20
of the economic=20
<DIV></DIV>> > predominance of the mafia that is the case =
nowadays.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Q: In your novel &quot;Possesions&quot; you started something=20
<DIV></DIV>> > quite interesting, something that you stopped =
pursuing=20
after having=20
<DIV></DIV>>written=20
<DIV></DIV>> > the first chapter though, and that particular =
thing is=20
the psychoanalysis=20
<DIV></DIV>>of=20
<DIV></DIV>> > art which also includes that of the artists and =
their=20
respective works.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Would it be possible to pursue research in this=20
particular field, namely,=20
<DIV></DIV>>an=20
<DIV></DIV>> > analysis of the history of art by following =
different=20
works of art from=20
<DIV></DIV>> > different epochs?=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Kristeva: I have really enjoyed myself writing about these=20
<DIV></DIV>> > different works of art, notably, on =
representations of=20
decapitation, and I=20
<DIV></DIV>> > believe that the novel as genre, especially =
thriller=20
which is an open=20
<DIV></DIV>>genre=20
<DIV></DIV>> > and completely renewable allows for this type of=20
digression in writing.=20
<DIV></DIV>>But=20
<DIV></DIV>> > they have severely criticized me for it and told =
me that=20
the book was too=20
<DIV></DIV>> > intellectual, very brainy and that the reader who =
wanted=20
to know how the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > crime was being developed and the murder had to =
suffer by=20
having had to=20
<DIV></DIV>> > wait. That was the malevolent reaction of those =
who have=20
known me as an=20
<DIV></DIV>> > intellectual and who did not like the fact that I =
was=20
going to write=20
<DIV></DIV>>novels.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > So, there is a certain tendency in France, or =
perhaps=20
elsewhere too, to=20
<DIV></DIV>>put=20
<DIV></DIV>> > labels on people- if you are a teacher, remain a =
teacher,=20
and if you are a=20
<DIV></DIV>> > writer, remain a writer, but the two of them at =
the same=20
time- that you=20
<DIV></DIV>> > cannot be! So, perhaps I will continue in that =
direction=20
, that ! of novel=20
<DIV></DIV>> > writing, I don't know. I have just finished the =
book=20
about Colette, and my=20
<DIV></DIV>> > new thriller is still in notes and scratches, it =
is not=20
articulated yet,=20
<DIV></DIV>>but=20
<DIV></DIV>> > I am not sure that the fragments which deal with =
the=20
so-called esthetic=20
<DIV></DIV>> > problems are excluded from it. It is true we =
cannot=20
insert a dissertation=20
<DIV></DIV>>in=20
<DIV></DIV>> > a novel, but perhaps we could set a basis there =
for it.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Q: I believe that one could read your book &quot;The Intimate=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Revolt&quot; in the light of your dialogue =
with=20
Hannah Arendt. In fact,=20
<DIV></DIV>>she=20
<DIV></DIV>> > was the one who has spoken of the misery of human =
beings=20
who are not=20
<DIV></DIV>>allowed=20
<DIV></DIV>> > to have &quot;contemplative&quot; ( read=20
creative) life and who are thus=20
<DIV></DIV>> > condemned to lead an &quot;active&quot; =
life,=20
that is, to have a miserable=20
<DIV></DIV>> > job. Is it the problem of our times that there =
exist such=20
individuals who=20
<DIV></DIV>> > revolt against the fact that they cannot realize=20
themselves? That is, who=20
<DIV></DIV>> > are angst-ridden and end up revolting against =
themselves?=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Kristeva: I believe that you were right to make such=20
<DIV></DIV>> > assumptions about my eventual dialogue with =
Hannah Arendt=20
-- I have been=20
<DIV></DIV>> > reading her work for quite a while and I'd say, =
in all=20
modesty, that a lot=20
<DIV></DIV>> > of my writing, consciously or unconsciously, is =
tied to=20
her thought . The=20
<DIV></DIV>> > idea of &quot;revolt&quot; was an effort =
to put=20
myself in relationship=20
<DIV></DIV>>with=20
<DIV></DIV>> > what we hear as &quot;her own =
thinking&quot;=20
which, following Heidegger's,=20
<DIV></DIV>> > opposes and relativizes calculative reasoning. As =
she was=20
very attentive=20
<DIV></DIV>>to=20
<DIV></DIV>> > the work of Heidegger, she conceived of thinking =
as an=20
inquiry, as an=20
<DIV></DIV>> > interrogatory process and opposed herself to the=20
calculative framework=20
<DIV></DIV>>which=20
<DIV></DIV>> > structures and characterizes contemporary =
behavior. My=20
work has found=20
<DIV></DIV>>itself=20
<DIV></DIV>> > a bit within this horizon but I also derived my=20
experience from the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > psychoanalytical approach which relativizes =
everyone's=20
identity as well as=20
<DIV></DIV>> > his/her past. Moreover, I derived my experience =
from=20
literary works, such=20
<DIV></DIV>>as=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Proust's &quot;Reche! rche de temps =
perdu;&quot;=20
for instance, from his=20
<DIV></DIV>> > flexing of language, metaphors and the syntax. I =
tried to=20
rethink the=20
<DIV></DIV>>mental=20
<DIV></DIV>> > disposition which helps us carry on, the one =
which is not=20
a mere=20
<DIV></DIV>>repetition=20
<DIV></DIV>> > of a cliche, something which is like an act of =
rebirth,=20
that is, rebirth=20
<DIV></DIV>> > which our thinking re-examines together with our =
interior=20
life as well as=20
<DIV></DIV>> > the very opening of the inquiry. This is what I =
take=20
&quot;revolt&quot; to=20
<DIV></DIV>> > be. So, it is neither an expression of simple =
existential=20
anguish nor=20
<DIV></DIV>> > contesting a socio-political order, but =
re-establishment=20
of things which=20
<DIV></DIV>>we=20
<DIV></DIV>> > start again. And, in this sense, revolt which =
engulfs the=20
psychic space is=20
<DIV></DIV>>a=20
<DIV></DIV>> > form of life, be it the state of being in love, =
or an act=20
of aesthetic=20
<DIV></DIV>> > creation or a project that could imply a very =
modest=20
activity but which=20
<DIV></DIV>> > allows you to re-examine your past, that is, to=20
interrogate it and renew=20
<DIV></DIV>>it.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > And I believe that we have very few occasions in =
our=20
daily lives which are=20
<DIV></DIV>> > quite standardized and banalized to work in that=20
direction. ! The work=20
<DIV></DIV>>that=20
<DIV></DIV>> > we do implies usually a repetition, the =
accomplishment o=20
f a given task.=20
<DIV></DIV>>The=20
<DIV></DIV>> > type of mental functioning which I call=20
&quot;revolt&quot; is something=20
<DIV></DIV>>that=20
<DIV></DIV>> > we lack and it is very dangerous because if it is =
lacking, we risk=20
<DIV></DIV>> > confronting two prospective pitfalls: one of them =
is=20
'somatization' when=20
<DIV></DIV>>the=20
<DIV></DIV>> > psychic space closes itself off and the conflict=20
manifests itself as=20
<DIV></DIV>>bodily=20
<DIV></DIV>> > illness or, in the other situation, we get into =
violence,=20
vandalism and=20
<DIV></DIV>> > wars. So, Vive la R=E8volte !=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > =
&gt; =20
Interview conducted by Nina Zivancevic, In Paris, March-April=20
<DIV></DIV>> > 2001=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;From: =
&quot;Michael=20
Eisenstadt&quot;=20
<DIV></DIV>>&lt;michaele@HotPOP.com&gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;Reply-To:=20
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;To:=20
&lt;austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net&gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;Subject: Re: Win =
this lovely=20
watch or left is right and right=20
<DIV></DIV>>is=20
<DIV></DIV>> > left=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;Date: Wed, 19 May =
2004=20
11:30:21 -0600=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;Wayne wrote:=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt; &gt; =
Oh. Go=20
and find thyself a New Genre, Kristeva.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt; &gt; (One of =
Mike E.=20
mostest favorite philosophers. Right,=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Mike?)=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;just to prove that i =
am=20
reading your inspired spritzes i must=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;acknowledge that i =
know of=20
and have read at least 2 pages=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;by Julia Kristeva.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;she is a French =
intellectual=20
from Eastern Yerp and writes=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;unreadable literary=20
criticism some of which has unfortunately=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;been translated into =
English.=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;are you a leftie or =
a=20
rightie, Wayne? wondering whether yule=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;be wearing the =
Chinese=20
mickey mouse watch on your left=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;wrist (if a rightie) =
or the=20
right (if a leftie)=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt; &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> > &gt;=20
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
=
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