surprise! godly men can be rightous and have fun, too...
Wayne Johnson
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Wed Mar 31 08:36:53 2004
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Especially interesting since the ETS was the source of the only "pro" =
civil rights pastors I knew in Austin, save two: Dr. Heinsohn of UMC and =
Dr. Smith of the Univ. Baptist Church.
wj
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Frances Morey=20
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: surprise! godly men can be rightous and have fun, too...
Wayne,
Nope, they are one and the same. The way I heard it was that he =
clashed vociferously with his fellow clergymen in assembly over the =
cause of civil rights. He thought they were not doing enough and let =
them hear about it during a clergy convention. They disdained him for =
this unseemly posturing, to their viewpoint, and decided to not assign =
him another church, if not officially defrocking him, depriving him of a =
place of work. That's when he went back to the practice of veterinary =
medicine.=20
He and Jenna also spent some years living on his ranch in Mexico. He =
was full of wit and wisdom and had wonderful parties over on Wheeler St. =
He attended my wedding in Castroville--Roy and I were one of the few =
couples from our circle of friends for whom he did not perform the =
wedding ceremony, because we were married in the Catholic church.
It was remarkable that years later at his Memorial service at St. =
James the head of the Episcopal Theological Seminary spoke about him and =
his mission advocating civil rights for African Americans. He admitted =
that Louis had been right and they were dead wrong--that time had proved =
Louis Buck's position to be the true righteous one and he apologized for =
their lapse in judgment. It was a stunning admission from a church elder =
and totally vindicated Louis.
Frances
Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net> wrote:
I thought the Very Reverend Dr. Buck had been de-frocked at one =
time. Were there two reverend-slash-veterinareans in Austin named Buck?
wj
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Frances Morey=20
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: surprise! god springs from each of us...
Judy,
Another one that I haven't made yet, here in Austin, that is said =
to be musically divine is St. James' Episcopal on Airport Blvd. in East =
Austin. It was built and founded by non-other than the Very Reverend Dr. =
Louis Buck. It was through his wit and wisdom that so many of us learned =
to love men of faith. That church was where I shook the Bishop's hand, =
at Louis Buck's Memorial, when he extended me his ring. Louis would have =
approved.
Frances
Monty/Judy <m.herr@comcast.net> wrote:
Francis - I recommend talking to Fontaine, Mary Jane, or Susan =
about the
UU Church - they probably are tight with all of the faiths and =
celebrations
around Austin=20
Judith M. Herr
Well Chosen Words
herrj@comcast.net
925-443-4514; 925-989-3723 (mobile)
925-292-1419 (FAX)
-----Original Message-----
From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of =
Frances Morey
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:10 AM
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Subject: RE: surprise! god is in each of us...
tele,
Hindu, schmindu! Religions, they are all alike to me--just =
kidding. You
make it sound like a delightful place. Thanks for the link. I =
have known
some wonderful East Indians, some of whom have become lifelong =
friends.
Frances
--- On Tue 03/30, telebob &! amp;! lt; telebob@sbcglobal.net > =
wrote:
From: telebob [mailto: telebob@sbcglobal.net]
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:45:29 -0600
Subject: RE: surprise! god is in each of us...
class=3D484063816-30032004>Jesus=20
Frances! That is NOT a mosque out on Camp Ben McCullogh Road. =
That=20
is Barsana Dam, and it is an Indian Hindu community.
class=3D484063816-30032004>=20
=
class=3D484063816-30032004>href=3D"http://barsanadham.org">http://barsana=
dham.org>
class=3D484063816-30032004>=20
class=3D484063816-30032004>They=20
are great people and it is wonderful little community out there. =
They have
some very coloful festivals, and I suggest you check out their =
calendar and
attend. I used to go with my daughter and stepson every year =
for several=20
years. They loved the elephant rides and the henna=20
'tattoos'.
class=3D484063816-30032004>They=20
have the best peaches in Texas.
class=3D484063816-30032004>=20
class=3D484063816-30032004>Shree=20
Telebhob
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----
From:=20
austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net=20
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of =
Frances
Morey
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:43 PM
To:=20
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Subject: Re: surprise! god is
in=20
each of us...
Pepi,
I have never been to a mosque either. We ought to go to the =
one out
290=20
on the way to the Salt Lick. It has $38,000 worth of gleaming =
gold tile
on the=20
entrance built up so high you can see it from the road. I =
would love=20
to view it up close, and see what the service is like. I =
thought=20
Gregorian chant in the Chapel at Our Lady of the Lake was
wonderful.
Francse
Pepi Plowman=20
wrote:
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
#1010ff 2px
solid">The=20
only thing I ever liked about church was the
music. The sermons put
me to=20
sleep. We had one
fairly intelligent and educated minister at=20
our
community church in Puerto La Cruz (we shared it with
the=20
Catholics, who came in for 8 a.m. mass)--he
sometimes gave thought=20
provoking sermons, but then we
got a fire and brimstone guy and
everyone=20
slept
through his exhortations. He was always trying to
save=20
somebody--kind of like a Jesus salesman. I liked
Quaker meeting
because=20
it was quiet sometimes, except
for when people got up to speak. The=20
Episcopalians and
Catholics seemed to do a lot of up and down and=20
repeat
after me stuff. I've never been to a temple of any
kind or
a=20
mosque, for that matter. I'm crazy for all
the major choral works,=20
especially Bach. I sang them
! ! in choirs in highschool and later.
There was=20
some
totally inspired church music written that makes me
want to
fly=20
when I hear it.
pep
--- Wayne Johnson=20
wrote:
> My problem is that most of my early=20
Church
> experience was filled with horrid white anglo saxon
>=20
protestant hypocricy and utter dismissal of other
> religions whilst
insisting that Jesus should be the
> half back on your football
team.=20
This drivel would
> stun a ground hog for its imbecility but seemed=20
to
> go over big in Georgetown in the Fifties. The
> single=20
person of deep religious faith that I knew
> personally and
respected=20
was Rev. Heinsohn of the
> University Methodist Church on the Drag.
I=20
worked
> there as a night-time custodian whilst a student at
>=20
UT. He was a gentleman, a true Biblical scholar and
> his sermons
were=20
absent! of cli! che or dumb harangues.
> By any measure, a great person
and a credit to our
> species.
>=20
> wj
> -----=20
Original Message -----=20
> From: Frances Morey=20
> To:=20
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:54
PM
> Subject: Re: surprise! god is in each of us...
>=20
>=20
> Wayne,
> These incidences of kindness are multiplied
>=20
thousands of times as church members all over are
> moved to help=20
their fellow humans. I've seen it in
> action and even experienced=20
some of it myself in my
> darkest moments. The church is the Other=20
place, away
> from home and the husstle 'n' bustle of the
>=20
marketplace, where people can be quite and
> contemplative in=20
humility, surrounded by peace and
> quiet or ethereal music, and=20
participating in the
> familiar and predictable process of the=20
liturgy,! if
! > a Mass, or listening to preachments alternating=20
with
> the singing of hymns, if they happen to be
> protestant.=20
I always prefered the Catholic practice
> of keeping the whole
service=20
to an hour, homily and
> all. That is merely the excuse for being=20
together,
> though. Perhaps god is really the human matrix in
>=20
which we immerse ourselves and the churches are
> places we are able
to find other humans who are
> capable and willing to express good=20
will--I believe
> that is so, anyway. My church experiences have=20
been
> as described and if not I certainly let them hear
> about=20
it. But that's another story.
> Frances=20
>=20
> Wayne=20
Johnson wrote:
> I just found out yesterday
that=20
a very dear
> friend of our in Reston has
> contract ALS and it=20
has already progessed to the
> point where he can bar! ely
! > brush=20
his teeth and can't clothe himself. He and
> his wife had joined=20
a
> local Unitarian church a couple of years ago and
> these=20
good people have
> taken it upon themselves to provide a world=20
of
> kindness, gentleness, love
> and direct physical and=20
emotional assistance to
> him and his wife. This
> includes=20
visits, shopping trips with and without
> him, food deliveries=20
and
> compansionship.
>=20
> To my old timey way of=20
thinking, this is what
> "churches" used to do: love
> people=20
and be supportive of those in need. Every
> so often it is good (for
me
> in particular) to be reminded that there are
> those who=20
actually practice
> what their religion suggests is=20
"Christian"
> behavior. Of course, the
> Unitarians aren't=20
exactly boil! er-plate,
> orthodox, Holey-Rollers. I believe
> Ben ! Franklin was a Unitarian and possibly G.
> Washington as well.=20
Not
> exactly Bible thumpers. Many of these
> congregations=20
accept neo-pagan
> beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only=20
other
> church I have found with
> similar sentiments was a=20
(Scottish) Episcopal
> church in Campbell, CA.
> Campbell being=20
vurrry Scottish as a person and a
> clan.
>=20
> Anyway.=20
Have to say sometimes the sysems works
> and works to the benefit=20
of
> some who really, really deserve it.
>=20
> wj
>=20
----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Pepi Plowman"=20
> To:=20
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:45 PM
> Subject: RE: let's=20
not do nuance
>=20
>=20
> > Wayne, Judy, Tele,
>=20
>
> > I'm with you all the way on the first part.
> God,=20
what
> > God? Which God? But allow me to elaborate
>=20
further,!=20
> > below...
> > --- telebob wrote:
> >=20
> Wayne-
> > >
> > >! ; I think as you do, and=20
thank you for
> reminding us
> > > that most priests=20
and
> > > factotems are basically criminals who spread
>=20
> > cultural myths
> >
> > totally. Myths that=20
preceded that particular
> religion
> > which the priests and=20
factotems accepted as
> truth and
> > preached, or myths that=20
were flagrantly made
> up to
> > suit a cultural bias in=20
order to bring more
> ignorant
> > humans to the=20
"fold".
> >
> > (all the better
> > > if they=20
believe what they preach, it makes
> it easier
> > > for=20
them to sleep)in
> > > order to retain and extend personal=20
and
> > > institutional power. This is not to
> > > say that there are no benefits, since those
> common
> > >=20
mythyologies help to
> > > create a 'public order' no matter=20
what the
> standard.
> > > Are religious
> > >=20
societies 'better' than secular societies?
> >
> > Fuck,=20
no!
> >
> > How do
> > > ! we measure? These=20
are
> > > topics worthy of millions of tomes, and
> indeed=20
you
> > > know they are out there
> > > discussing=20
this shit still, like a bunch of
> > > sophomores who have=20
just
> > > dicovered 'philosophy'.
> >
> > How=20
dare they abuse us by discussing them?!
> State and
> >=20
religion should not mix, Point!
> > >
> > > But my=20
dad, who was a doctor, was in a
> > > 'philosophical' mood one=20
night, a
>! ; > > little in his cups,! and he related. "I=20
watch
> people
> > > die and people born
> > >=20
every day as a part of my job, and all I can
> say is,
> >=20
> 'Where does the flame
> > > go when it goes out?' Does the=20
flame have a
> soul?"
> >
> > So, did he ever answer=20
his question, or did he
> just
> > ask?
> >
>=20
> > He was not a religious
> > > man, though he tried to=20
keep up appearances.
> On the
> > > other hand, he=20
was
> > > 'moral' person w! ho enjoyed overpaying his
>=20
taxes and
> > > never breaking a traffic
> > >=20
law.
> > >
> > > So when we are approached by 'holy=20
men' of
> any
> > > stripe, know you are being
>=20
> > approached by the powers of darkness.
> >
> > Do !=20
you really believe there is a! Big Boogyman
> out
> >=20
there?!
> >
> > This includes
> > > rabbis,=20
priests,
> > > mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my
>=20
faith in
> > > the scientific method and
> > > its=20
self correcting process.
> > >
> >
> > Man,=20
I'd hate to be on the back end of a "self
> > correcting process"=20
inflicted on me by a
> source
> > outside myself (like=20
doctors and lawyers and
> > policemen) when I had resources=20
available to
> me that
>=20
=3D=3D=3D message truncated=20
=3D=3D=3D
__________________________________
Do you=20
Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on=20
time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
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href=3D"http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html">Yahoo! Finance Tax
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- File online. File on time.
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-----
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Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C416FB.587DD360
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Especially interesting since the ETS =
was the source=20
of the only "pro" civil rights pastors I knew in Austin, save two: Dr. =
Heinsohn=20
of UMC and Dr. Smith of the Univ. Baptist Church.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>wj</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dfrances_morey@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:frances_morey@yahoo.com">Frances=20
Morey</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 31, 2004 =
12:26=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: surprise! godly =
men can be=20
rightous and have fun, too...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Wayne,</DIV>
<DIV>Nope, they are one and the same. The way I heard it was that he =
clashed=20
vociferously with his fellow clergymen in assembly over the =
cause of=20
civil rights. He thought they were not doing enough and let them hear =
about=20
it during a clergy convention. They disdained him for this =
unseemly=20
posturing, to their viewpoint, and decided to =
not assign him=20
another church, if not officially defrocking him, depriving him of a =
place of=20
work. That's when he went back to the practice of veterinary=20
medicine. </DIV>
<DIV>He and Jenna also spent some years living on his ranch =
in=20
Mexico. He was full of wit and wisdom and had wonderful parties over =
on=20
Wheeler St. He attended my wedding in Castroville--Roy and I were =
one of=20
the few couples from our circle of friends for whom he did not =
perform=20
the wedding ceremony, because we were married in the =
Catholic=20
church.</DIV>
<DIV>It was remarkable that years later at his Memorial service at St. =
James=20
the head of the Episcopal Theological Seminary spoke about him and his =
mission advocating civil rights for African =
Americans. He=20
admitted that Louis had been right and they were dead wrong--that =
time=20
had proved Louis Buck's position to be the true righteous one and he=20
apologized for their lapse in judgment. It was a stunning admission =
from a=20
church elder and totally vindicated Louis.</DIV>
<DIV>Frances<BR><BR><B><I>Wayne Johnson =
<cadaobh@shentel.net></I></B>=20
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thought the Very Reverend Dr. =
Buck had been=20
de-frocked at one time. Were there two =
reverend-slash-veterinareans in=20
Austin named Buck?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>wj</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dfrances_morey@yahoo.com=20
href=3D"mailto:frances_morey@yahoo.com">Frances Morey</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 30, =
2004 2:48=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: surprise! god =
springs=20
from each of us...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Judy,</DIV>
<DIV>Another one that I haven't made yet, here in Austin, =
that is=20
said to be musically divine is St. James' Episcopal on =
Airport Blvd.=20
in East Austin. It was built and founded by non-other than the =
Very=20
Reverend Dr. Louis Buck. It was through his wit and=20
wisdom that so many of us learned to love men of faith. That=20
church was where I shook the Bishop's hand, at =
Louis Buck's=20
Memorial, when he extended me his ring. Louis would have =
approved.</DIV>
<DIV>Frances<BR><BR><B><I>Monty/Judy =
<m.herr@comcast.net></I></B>=20
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff =
2px solid">Francis=20
- I recommend talking to Fontaine, Mary Jane, or Susan about =
the<BR>UU=20
Church - they probably are tight with all of the faiths and=20
celebrations<BR>around Austin <BR><BR>Judith M. Herr<BR>Well =
Chosen=20
Words<BR>herrj@comcast.net<BR>925-443-4514; 925-989-3723=20
(mobile)<BR>925-292-1419 (FAX)<BR><BR><BR>-----Original=20
Message-----<BR>From:=20
=
austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net<BR>[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin=
@pairlist.net]=20
On Behalf Of Frances Morey<BR>Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 =
10:10=20
AM<BR>To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR>Subject: RE: =
surprise! god=20
is in each of us...<BR><BR><BR>tele,<BR>Hindu, schmindu! =
Religions, they=20
are all alike to me--just kidding. You<BR>make it sound like a=20
delightful place. Thanks for the link. I have known<BR>some =
wonderful=20
East Indians, some of whom have become lifelong=20
friends.<BR>Frances<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--- On Tue 03/30, telebob =
&!=20
amp;! lt; telebob@sbcglobal.net > wrote:<BR>From: telebob =
[mailto:=20
telebob@sbcglobal.net]<BR>To: =
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR>Date:=20
Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:45:29 -0600<BR>Subject: RE: surprise! god is =
in each=20
of us...<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" =
name=3DGENERATOR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004>Jesus =
<BR>Frances! =20
That is NOT a mosque out on Camp Ben McCullogh Road. That =
<BR>is=20
Barsana Dam, and it is an Indian Hindu=20
community.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
<br>class=3D484063816-30032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004><A=20
=
<br>href=3D"http://barsanadham.org">http://barsanadham.org</A></SPAN><=
/FONT></DIV<BR>><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
<br>class=3D484063816-30032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004>They <BR>are =
great people=20
and it is wonderful little community out there. They=20
have<BR><BR>some very coloful festivals, and I suggest you =
check=20
out their calendar and<BR><BR>attend. I used to go with my =
daughter and stepson every year for several <BR>years. =
They loved=20
the elephant rides and the henna =
<BR>'tattoos'.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004>They <BR>have =
the best=20
peaches in Texas.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
<br>class=3D484063816-30032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004>Shree=20
<BR>Telebhob</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
<br>size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
<BR>austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net=20
<BR>[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]<B>On Behalf =
Of=20
</B>Frances<BR><BR>Morey<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 29, =
2004 11:43=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
<BR>austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
surprise!=20
god is<BR>in <BR>each of us...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV>Pepi,</DIV><BR>
<DIV>I have never been to a mosque either. We ought to go to =
the one=20
out<BR>290 <BR>on the way to the Salt Lick. It has $38,000 =
worth of=20
gleaming gold tile<BR>on the <BR>entrance built up so high you =
can see=20
it from the road. I would love <BR>to view it up close, =
and see=20
what the service is like. I thought <BR>Gregorian chant in the =
Chapel=20
at Our Lady of the Lake was<BR>wonderful.</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Francse<BR><BR><B><I>Pepi Plowman=20
<PEPSTOIL@YAHOO.COM></I></B><BR>wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq <br>style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT:=20
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px<BR>solid">The <BR>only =
thing I ever=20
liked about church was the<BR>music. The sermons put<BR>me =
to=20
<BR>sleep. We had one<BR>fairly intelligent and educated =
minister at=20
<BR>our<BR>community church in Puerto La Cruz (we shared it=20
with<BR>the <BR>Catholics, who came in for 8 a.m.=20
mass)--he<BR>sometimes gave thought <BR>provoking sermons, =
but then=20
we<BR>got a fire and brimstone guy and<BR>everyone=20
<BR>slept<BR>through his exhortations. He was always trying=20
to<BR>save <BR>somebody--kind of like a Jesus salesman. I=20
liked<BR>Quaker meeting<BR>because <BR>it was quiet =
sometimes,=20
except<BR>for when people got up to speak. The =
<BR>Episcopalians=20
and<BR>Catholics seemed to do a lot of up and down and=20
<BR>repeat<BR>after me stuff. I've never been to a temple of =
any<BR>kind or<BR>a <BR>mosque, for that matter. I'm crazy =
for=20
all<BR>the major choral works, <BR>especially Bach. I sang =
them<BR>!=20
! in choirs in highschool and later.<BR>There was=20
<BR>some<BR>totally inspired church music written that makes =
me<BR>want to<BR>fly <BR>when I hear it.<BR>pep<BR>--- Wayne =
Johnson=20
<BR><CADAOBH@SHENTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> My problem is that =
most of=20
my early <BR>Church<BR>> experience was filled with =
horrid white=20
anglo saxon<BR>> <BR>protestant hypocricy and utter =
dismissal of=20
other<BR>> religions whilst<BR><BR>insisting that Jesus =
should be=20
the<BR>> half back on your football<BR>team. <BR>This =
drivel=20
would<BR>> stun a ground hog for its imbecility but =
seemed=20
<BR>to<BR>> go over big in Georgetown in the Fifties. =
The<BR>>=20
single <BR>person of deep religious faith that I =
knew<BR>>=20
personally and<BR>respected <BR>was Rev. Heinsohn of =
the<BR>>=20
University Methodist Church on the Drag.<BR>I =
<BR>worked<BR>>=20
there as a night-time custodian whilst a student at<BR>> =
<BR>UT.=20
He was a gentleman, a true Biblical scholar and<BR>> his=20
sermons<BR>were <BR>absent! of cli! che or dumb =
harangues.<BR>>=20
By any measure, a great person<BR><BR>and a credit to =
our<BR>>=20
species.<BR>> <BR>> wj<BR>> ----- <BR>Original =
Message=20
----- <BR>> From: Frances Morey <BR>> To:=20
<BR>austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net <BR>> Sent: Sunday, =
March 28,=20
2004 7:54<BR><BR>PM<BR>> Subject: Re: surprise! god is in =
each of=20
us...<BR>> <BR>> <BR><BR>> Wayne,<BR>> These =
incidences=20
of kindness are multiplied<BR>> <BR>thousands of times as =
church=20
members all over are<BR>> moved to help <BR>their fellow =
humans.=20
I've seen it in<BR>> action and even experienced <BR>some =
of it=20
myself in my<BR>> darkest moments. The church is the =
Other=20
<BR>place, away<BR>> from home and the husstle 'n' bustle =
of=20
the<BR>> <BR>marketplace, where people can be quite =
and<BR>>=20
contemplative in <BR>humility, surrounded by peace =
and<BR>> quiet=20
or ethereal music, and <BR>participating in the<BR>> =
familiar and=20
predictable process of the <BR>liturgy,! if<BR>! > a =
Mass, or=20
listening to preachments alternating <BR>with<BR>> the =
singing of=20
hymns, if they happen to be<BR>> protestant. <BR>I always =
prefered the Catholic practice<BR>> of keeping the=20
whole<BR>service <BR>to an hour, homily and<BR>> all. =
That is=20
merely the excuse for being <BR>together,<BR>> though. =
Perhaps=20
god is really the human matrix in<BR>> <BR>which we =
immerse=20
ourselves and the churches are<BR>> places we are =
able<BR><BR>to=20
find other humans who are<BR>> capable and willing to =
express=20
good <BR>will--I believe<BR>> that is so, anyway. My =
church=20
experiences have <BR>been<BR>> as described and if not I=20
certainly let them hear<BR>> about <BR>it. But that's =
another=20
story.<BR>> Frances <BR>> <BR>> Wayne <BR>Johnson=20
<CADAOBH@SHENTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> I just found out=20
yesterday<BR>that <BR>a very dear<BR>> friend of our in =
Reston=20
has<BR>> contract ALS and it <BR>has already progessed to =
the<BR>> point where he can bar! ely<BR>! > brush =
<BR>his=20
teeth and can't clothe himself. He and<BR>> his wife had =
joined=20
<BR>a<BR>> local Unitarian church a couple of years ago=20
and<BR>> these <BR>good people have<BR>> taken it upon =
themselves to provide a world <BR>of<BR>> kindness, =
gentleness,=20
love<BR>> and direct physical and <BR>emotional =
assistance=20
to<BR>> him and his wife. This<BR>> includes =
<BR>visits,=20
shopping trips with and without<BR>> him, food deliveries =
<BR>and<BR>> compansionship.<BR>> <BR>> To my old =
timey way=20
of <BR>thinking, this is what<BR>> "churches" used to do: =
love<BR>> people <BR>and be supportive of those in need.=20
Every<BR>> so often it is good (for<BR><BR>me<BR>> in=20
particular) to be reminded that there are<BR>> those who=20
<BR>actually practice<BR>> what their religion suggests =
is=20
<BR>"Christian"<BR>> behavior. Of course, the<BR>> =
Unitarians=20
aren't <BR>exactly boil! er-plate,<BR>> orthodox, =
Holey-Rollers.=20
I believe<BR>> <BR!>Ben ! Franklin was a Unitarian and =
possibly=20
G.<BR>> Washington as well. <BR>Not<BR>> exactly Bible =
thumpers. Many of these<BR>> congregations <BR>accept=20
neo-pagan<BR>> beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only=20
<BR>other<BR>> church I have found with<BR>> similar=20
sentiments was a <BR>(Scottish) Episcopal<BR>> church in=20
Campbell, CA.<BR>> Campbell being <BR>vurrry Scottish as =
a person=20
and a<BR>> clan.<BR>> <BR>> Anyway. <BR>Have to say =
sometimes the sysems works<BR>> and works to the benefit=20
<BR>of<BR>> some who really, really deserve it.<BR>> =
<BR>>=20
wj<BR>> <BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: =
"Pepi=20
Plowman" <BR>> To: <BR><BR>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, =
2004=20
9:45 PM<BR>> Subject: RE: let's <BR>not do nuance<BR>> =
<BR>> <BR>> > Wayne, Judy, Tele,<BR>> =
<BR>><BR>>=20
> I'm with you all the way on the first part.<BR>> =
God,=20
<BR>what<BR>> > God? Which God? But allow me to=20
elaborate<BR>> <BR>further,! <BR>> > =
below...<BR>> >=20
--- telebob wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> Wayne-<BR>> > =
><BR>> > >! ; I think as you do, and <BR>thank =
you=20
for<BR>> reminding us<BR>> > > that most priests =
<BR>and<BR>> > > factotems are basically criminals =
who=20
spread<BR>> <BR>> > cultural myths<BR>> =
><BR>>=20
> totally. Myths that <BR>preceded that =
particular<BR>>=20
religion<BR>> > which the priests and <BR>factotems =
accepted=20
as<BR>> truth and<BR>> > preached, or myths that =
<BR>were=20
flagrantly made<BR>> up to<BR>> > suit a cultural =
bias in=20
<BR>order to bring more<BR>> ignorant<BR>> > humans =
to the=20
<BR>"fold".<BR>> ><BR>> > (all the =
better<BR>> >=20
> if they <BR>believe what they preach, it makes<BR>> =
it=20
easier<BR>> > > for <BR>them to sleep)in<BR>> =
> >=20
order to retain and extend personal <BR>and<BR>> > =
>=20
institutional power. This is not to<BR>> > > <B! =
R>say that=20
there are no benefits, since those<BR>> common<BR>> =
> >=20
<BR>mythyologies help to<BR>> > > create a 'public =
order'=20
no matter <BR>what the<BR>> standard.<BR>> > > =
Are=20
religious<BR>> > > <BR>societies 'better' than =
secular=20
societies?<BR>> ><BR>> > Fuck, <BR>no!<BR>>=20
><BR>> > How do<BR>> > > ! we measure? =
These=20
<BR>are<BR>> > > topics worthy of millions of =
tomes,=20
and<BR>> indeed <BR>you<BR>> > > know they are =
out=20
there<BR>> > > discussing <BR>this shit still, like =
a bunch=20
of<BR>> > > sophomores who have <BR>just<BR>> =
> >=20
dicovered 'philosophy'.<BR>> ><BR>> > How =
<BR>dare they=20
abuse us by discussing them?!<BR>> State and<BR>> > =
<BR>religion should not mix, Point!<BR>> > =
><BR>> >=20
> But my <BR>dad, who was a doctor, was in a<BR>> > =
>=20
'philosophical' mood one <BR>night, a<BR>>! ; > > =
little in=20
his cups,! and he related. "I <BR>watch<BR>> =
people<BR>> >=20
> die and people born<BR>> > > <BR>every day as =
a part=20
of my job, and all I can<BR>> say is,<BR>> > =
<BR>>=20
'Where does the flame<BR>> > > go when it goes =
out?' Does=20
the <BR>flame have a<BR>> soul?"<BR>> ><BR>> =
> So,=20
did he ever answer <BR>his question, or did he<BR>> =
just<BR>>=20
> ask?<BR>> ><BR>> <BR>> > He was not a=20
religious<BR>> > > man, though he tried to <BR>keep =
up=20
appearances.<BR>> On the<BR>> > > other hand, he =
<BR>was<BR>> > > 'moral' person w! ho enjoyed =
overpaying=20
his<BR>> <BR>taxes and<BR>> > > never breaking a =
traffic<BR>> > > <BR>law.<BR>> > ><BR>> =
>=20
> So when we are approached by 'holy <BR>men' of<BR>>=20
any<BR>> > > stripe, know you are being<BR>> =
<BR>>=20
> approached by the powers of darkness.<BR>> =
><BR>> >=20
Do ! <BR>you really believe there is a! Big Boogyman<BR>> =
out<BR>> > <BR>there?!<BR>> ><BR>> > This=20
includes<BR>> > > rabbis, <BR>priests,<BR>> > =
>=20
mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my<BR>> <BR>faith=20
in<BR>> > > the scientific method and<BR>> > =
> its=20
<BR>self correcting process.<BR>> > ><BR>> =
><BR>>=20
> Man, <BR>I'd hate to be on the back end of a =
"self<BR>> >=20
correcting process" <BR>inflicted on me by a<BR>> =
source<BR>>=20
> outside myself (like <BR>doctors and lawyers =
and<BR>> >=20
policemen) when I had resources <BR>available to<BR>> me=20
that<BR>> <BR>=3D=3D=3D message truncated=20
=
<BR>=3D=3D=3D<BR><BR><BR>__________________________________<BR>Do you=20
<BR>Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File =
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