I am not Ed Alexander

Wayne Johnson austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Mon Mar 29 08:10:04 2004


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I have been reading the Koran off and on over the past few years.  In =
translation, which most people say causes one to lose about 1/2 its =
actual beauty.  I would love to read the Torah but I don't think that is =
going to happen.  Just because I think there is no A Priori proof of the =
existence of G*D and we are trying to make sense of 2d Century BC desert =
mysticism is not to say that there is no beauty nor worth in these =
documents. =20

As you say, so well, one has to understand the context and be able to =
read these documents intelligently.  Literal reading is like making soup =
without tasting it.

wj
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Frances Morey=20
  To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
  Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 8:19 PM
  Subject: Re: I am not Ed Alexander=20


  Wayne,
  But Ed Alexander certainly embraced a number of us in Real de Catorce, =
celebrating that fine and unforgettable Thanksgiving. As for the bible, =
it is idiocy to demand that the stuff is a true blueprint for living as =
the fundamentalists tend to do. It has to be thought of in the context =
of the times it was written, or committed to paper, after centuries of =
the oral tradition passing it down. The strict interpretation of the =
bible is for stupid people who are untutored in the history of the book =
itself and how the stories might have evolved through countless =
translations from way back in time. Huey, I say. A book is a book, and I =
have never even contemplated reading it. Didn't have to--I went to =
Church often enough to hear all of it read to me in small segments over =
time. Little morality plays is what it was intended for, before =
scientific thought demonstrated that some of the biblical truths were =
poppycock. Perso! nally I would prefer Greek drama staged every Sunday =
morning, but they never asked me what I thought. BTW the existence of =
god, or not, is scientifically unprovable so it is idle talk to insist =
one way or the other since it is spiritual thing, within the mind of the =
believer and unknowable but to each person for themselves. When others =
try to proselytize about it is when there is potential for discomfort. =
You will believe what I want you to believe, god dagnabit! That's about =
mind control, and not highly personalized religious experience. Little =
is all good or all bad, it's a matter of degree.
  Frances

  Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net> wrote:
    Hey, listen up there. If you were in the Car Business and had the =
Buick
    franchise, would you want to have anything to do with a bunch of =
Ford-ites?
    (Uh, this doesn't mean you, Jon, its just a metaphor.) Or Dodge-ers? =
No.
    You try to keep things in your control. As in, revising and
    burying/burning "alternative scripts". Or in this case, scriptures. =
Get
    rid of all those "messy" Earth Mother images. And certainly get rid =
of
    anything hinting at "mortal" behavior. Like birth via the ole birth =
canal
    there and sleepin' with wimmin'. Y

    wj
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: "Judith M. Herr"=20
    To:=20
    Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 4:50 PM
    Subject: RE: I am not Ed Alexander


    > Is this when we get to start talking about the removal from the =
stories of
    > Jesus of Mary Magdalene as Jesus'wife and mother of his children?
    >
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
    > [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Wayne =
Johnson
    > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:00 PM
    > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
    > Subject: I am not Ed Alexander
    >
    > What "truth" in the Bible? Beautiful stories and epic morality =
plays with
    > lots of things to learn. Unless, of course, you think that it, the =
Bible,
    > was actually conceived of and written in King James English. It is =
an
    > important book among many important books dealing with similar =
subjects.
    > As
    > such, it is subject to interpretation and re-interpretation and =
often,
    > deliberate, mis-quoting and horrific mis-use.
    >
    > It is, on the other hand, in no way, in and of itself, a =
"justification"
    > for
    > murder, vilification or social violence aga! inst *any other =
group*...even
    > total non-believers. Only those with the intellectual capacity of =
a
    > chocolate bunny view things that way. Ooops, value judgment =
sneaked in
    > there. We don't need a New American Inquisition or Baptist Taliban =
in
    this
    > Millenium.
    >
    > Ever notice the difference between say, Martin Buber and Billy =
Graham. Or
    > Tielhard de Chardin (sp?) and Pat Robertson? Or the "reported" =
behaviour
    > of
    > St. Francis and George Bush? There was another Protestant =
theologian I
    > used to read back in the Sixties, oh yes, Paul Tillich. =
Contemporary
    > Evangelists don't quote him much. That I have noticed anyway. =
Anyone for
    > Kierkegaard these days?
    >
    > Agnostically yours,
    >
    > Rev. Bubba
    > Church of the American Constitution
    > ----- Original Message -----=20
    > From: "Michael Eisenstadt"=20
    > To:=20
    >! ; Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 10:44 AM
    > Subject: Ed Alexander is NOT one of us
    >
    >
    > > well, of course, he's one of us. if there is anyone who is not =
one of
    > > us, its me.
    > >
    > > Ed emailed to get off the list this morning in a letter quoting =
the
    > > bad things I said about the truth of the bible. Apparently he or
    > > Brigit thinks its the word of Gigoo. <-my pet name for Him
    > >
    > > i still believe that subscribers to this list are all lefties
    politically
    > > and some are new agers and some are standard secular types.
    > >
    > > Mike the secular leftie <-sounds lethal dont it?
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >





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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have been reading the Koran off and =
on over the=20
past few years.&nbsp; In translation, which most people say causes one =
to lose=20
about 1/2 its actual beauty.&nbsp; I would love to read the Torah but I =
don't=20
think that is going to happen.&nbsp; Just because I think there is no A =
Priori=20
proof of the existence of G*D and we are trying to make sense of 2d =
Century BC=20
desert mysticism is not to say that there is no beauty nor worth in =
these=20
documents.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As you say, so well, one has to =
understand the=20
context and be able to read these documents intelligently.&nbsp; Literal =
reading=20
is like making soup without tasting it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>wj</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dfrances_morey@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:frances_morey@yahoo.com">Frances=20
  Morey</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 28, 2004 =
8:19=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: I am not Ed =
Alexander </DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>Wayne,</DIV>
  <DIV>But Ed Alexander certainly embraced a number of us in Real de=20
  Catorce,&nbsp;celebrating&nbsp;that fine and unforgettable =
Thanksgiving. As=20
  for the bible, it is idiocy to demand that the stuff is=20
  a&nbsp;true&nbsp;blueprint for living&nbsp;as the =
fundamentalists&nbsp;tend=20
  to&nbsp;do. It has to be thought of in the context of the times it was =

  written, or committed to paper, after centuries of the oral tradition =
passing=20
  it down. The strict interpretation of the bible is for stupid people =
who are=20
  untutored in the history of the book itself and how the stories might =
have=20
  evolved&nbsp;through countless translations from way back in time. =
Huey, I=20
  say. A book is a book, and I have never even&nbsp;contemplated=20
  reading&nbsp;it. Didn't have to--I went to Church often enough to hear =
all of=20
  it read to me in small segments over time. Little morality plays is =
what it=20
  was intended for, before scientific thought&nbsp;demonstrated that =
some of=20
  the&nbsp;biblical truths were poppycock. Perso! nally I would prefer =
Greek=20
  drama staged every Sunday morning, but they never asked me what I =
thought. BTW=20
  the existence of god, or not, is scientifically unprovable so it is =
idle talk=20
  to insist one way or the other since it is spiritual thing, within the =
mind of=20
  the believer and unknowable&nbsp;but to each person for themselves. =
When=20
  others try to proselytize about it is when there is potential for =
discomfort.=20
  You will believe what I want you to believe, god dagnabit! That's =
about mind=20
  control, and not highly personalized religious experience.&nbsp;Little =
is all=20
  good or all bad, it's a matter of degree.</DIV>
  <DIV>Frances<BR><BR><B><I>Wayne Johnson =
&lt;cadaobh@shentel.net&gt;</I></B>=20
  wrote:</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">Hey,=20
    listen up there. If you were in the Car Business and had the=20
    Buick<BR>franchise, would you want to have anything to do with a =
bunch of=20
    Ford-ites?<BR>(Uh, this doesn't mean you, Jon, its just a metaphor.) =
Or=20
    Dodge-ers? No.<BR>You try to keep things in your control. As in, =
revising=20
    and<BR>burying/burning "alternative scripts". Or in this case, =
scriptures.=20
    Get<BR>rid of all those "messy" Earth Mother images. And certainly =
get rid=20
    of<BR>anything hinting at "mortal" behavior. Like birth via the ole =
birth=20
    canal<BR>there and sleepin' with wimmin'. Y<BR><BR>wj<BR>----- =
Original=20
    Message ----- <BR>From: "Judith M. Herr" <HERRJ@COMCAST.NET><BR>To:=20
    <AUSTIN-GHETTO-LIST@PAIRLIST.NET><BR>Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 =
4:50=20
    PM<BR>Subject: RE: I am not Ed Alexander<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Is this =
when we get=20
    to start talking about the removal from the stories of<BR>&gt; Jesus =
of Mary=20
    Magdalene as Jesus'wife and mother of his=20
    children?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<BR>&gt;=20
    From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net<BR>&gt;=20
    [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Wayne=20
    Johnson<BR>&gt; Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:00 PM<BR>&gt; To:=20
    austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR>&gt; Subject: I am not Ed=20
    Alexander<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What "truth" in the Bible? Beautiful =
stories and=20
    epic morality plays with<BR>&gt; lots of things to learn. Unless, of =
course,=20
    you think that it, the Bible,<BR>&gt; was actually conceived of and =
written=20
    in King James English. It is an<BR>&gt; important book among many =
important=20
    books dealing with similar subjects.<BR>&gt; As<BR>&gt; such, it is =
subject=20
    to interpretation and re-interpretation and often,<BR>&gt; =
deliberate,=20
    mis-quoting and horrific mis-use.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It is, on the =
other hand,=20
    in no way, in and of itself, a "justification"<BR>&gt; for<BR>&gt; =
murder,=20
    vilification or social violence aga! inst *any other =
group*...even<BR>&gt;=20
    total non-believers. Only those with the intellectual capacity of =
a<BR>&gt;=20
    chocolate bunny view things that way. Ooops, value judgment sneaked=20
    in<BR>&gt; there. We don't need a New American Inquisition or =
Baptist=20
    Taliban in<BR>this<BR>&gt; Millenium.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ever notice =
the=20
    difference between say, Martin Buber and Billy Graham. Or<BR>&gt; =
Tielhard=20
    de Chardin (sp?) and Pat Robertson? Or the "reported" =
behaviour<BR>&gt;=20
    of<BR>&gt; St. Francis and George Bush? There was another Protestant =

    theologian I<BR>&gt; used to read back in the Sixties, oh yes, Paul =
Tillich.=20
    Contemporary<BR>&gt; Evangelists don't quote him much. That I have =
noticed=20
    anyway. Anyone for<BR>&gt; Kierkegaard these days?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    Agnostically yours,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Rev. Bubba<BR>&gt; Church of the =

    American Constitution<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message ----- <BR>&gt; =
From:=20
    "Michael Eisenstadt" <MICHAELE@ANDO.PAIR.COM><BR>&gt; To:=20
    <AUSTIN-GHETTO-LIST@PAIRLIST.NET><BR>&gt;! ; Sent: Sunday, March 28, =
2004=20
    10:44 AM<BR>&gt; Subject: Ed Alexander is NOT one of=20
    us<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; well, of course, he's one of us. if =
there is=20
    anyone who is not one of<BR>&gt; &gt; us, its me.<BR>&gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
    Ed emailed to get off the list this morning in a letter quoting =
the<BR>&gt;=20
    &gt; bad things I said about the truth of the bible. Apparently he=20
    or<BR>&gt; &gt; Brigit thinks its the word of Gigoo. &lt;-my pet =
name for=20
    Him<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; i still believe that subscribers to =
this list=20
    are all lefties<BR>politically<BR>&gt; &gt; and some are new agers =
and some=20
    are standard secular types.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Mike the =
secular=20
    leftie &lt;-sounds lethal dont it?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    =
&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DI=
V>
  <P>
  <HR SIZE=3D1>
  <FONT face=3Darial size=3D-1>Do you Yahoo!?<BR><A=20
  href=3D"http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html"><B>Yahoo! Finance Tax =
Center</A></B>=20
  - File online. File on time.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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