The Irish

[Jon Ford]

Wayne-- Don't get me started on those piss-headed drunkards!  I myself am 
1/4 Irish at least, and I keep batting away at that 1/4 saying, "Get offa my 
back, Paddy!"  Seriously, it's one of the essential qualities of racism to 
hate part of oneself or one's own background-- and them to project that 
hatred onto others to somehow get free of certain undesirable qualities one 
knows lie deep within. Why else would white Southern men, commonly known for 
their drunken, lecherous, slothful ways, accuse Blacks of being possessed by 
those exact same qualities? Just a thought!

Jon


>From: "Wayne Johnson" <cadaobh@shentel.net>
>Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
>To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
>Subject: Re: Reverse racism?
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:52:54 -0500
>
>Well, everything is OK, except, of course, for the Irish, who, as we all
>know are sub-human!
>
>May the Liffy swallow your shoes!
>
>Paddy O'Bubba McGowen
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jon Ford" <jonmfordster@hotmail.com>
>To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
>Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 3:00 PM
>Subject: Reverse racism?
>
>
> > Pepi-- Sorry I had a bit of trouble having a "clear 
read" of your post.
> > Maybe you lost  credibility to me with the "past lives"  
stuff. I totally
> > believe that this is "mumbo jumbo"--the Buddhist ideas 
on reincarnation
>can
> > work as a metaphor for enhancing one's Karma on this earth to 
avoid coming
> > back as a lower form of being in another frame of being, but the 
literal
> > reincarnation in the  Bridey Murphy stuff is just the mind working
>overtime
> > to create fictional personas. Better to go write a novel, or a 
series of
> > them!  Thus  I couldn't quite believe the other strange aspects of 
your
> > "family story." Well, it's  an interesting bit of 
autobiography, as is the
> > part about being raped and then living with black people in part  
out of
> > "reverse racism." I can't really judge your response to 
your rape-- sounds
> > like you were trying to cope in your own way. I hope it worked for 
you.
>But
> > did this  "reverse racism" really wipe out your anger (I 
assume you had
>some
> > negative responses to being raped-- this would seem normal)? My 
point in
>my
> > post was  that, as Michael E. suggests,  a little bit of 
unconscious
>racism
> > still hangs around, even if  we consciously understand other 
cultures and
> > ethnic groups and even if we do  extreme penance to eradicate the 
feeling
>of
> > difference. Admitting and coping with such feelings is better than
> > repressing  and denying them.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> > >From: Pepi Plowman <pepstoil@yahoo.com>
> > >Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > >To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > >Subject: Re: let's try to do nuance
> > >Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:28:50 -0800 (PST)
> > >
> > >Jon,
> > >
> > >Sorry my posts are ununderstandable to you--in the
> > >last one, the stories about being burned in the ovens
> > >and being a Buddhist monk are past lifetimes--the part
> > >about my sister and I being born in a prison camp in
> > >the Philippines and her living in Israel for eight
> > >years took place in this lifetime and is no fantasy.
> > >
> > >Insofar as racism and ethnicism is concerned--it's
> > >true, it's available to all, especially if one has no
> > >experience of other cultures.  I was raped (and so was
> > >my little sister, Gayle) by black men and I made it a
> > >goal to not become a racist because of it.  If
> > >anything as regards black people, I am a reverse
> > >racist, because I esteem so much about them.  I hung
> > >out mostly with African Americans when I lived in
> > >Berkeley because I felt more comfortable with them.
> > >
> > >pep
> > >--- Jon Ford <jonmfordster@hotmail.com> 
wrote:
> > > > Pepi-- I want you to know that I can read pretty
> > > > well and I tried hard to
> > > > read your last post, but you are so psychic you
> > > > don't seem to know fantasy
> > > > from reality. I can't tell which part of your
> > > > family's bio is
> > > > reincarnation-tales, which is fantasy or weird
> > > > family stories somewhat
> > > > varnished by time,
> > > > which is just sheer crank-talk. But I do know 
that I
> > > > didn't intend to insult
> > > > you or call you or your sister a racist  in my 
post
> > > > to Mike E. I was talking
> > > > in general of such bunk as "Israelis 
are
> > > > reincarnated
> > > > Nazis" and where such thoughts evolve 
from, how they
> > > > are related to other
> > > > thoughts such a false analogy as 
"Zionism is
> > > > Fascism". I wanted to open the
> > > > discussion into a more general sense of illogic 
and
> > > > mental infection by
> > > > slogans. On the other hand, the comments Mike
> > > > recently  made about the
> > > > difficulty of total acceptance of people of 
other
> > > > races/cultures rings true.
> > > > There is always a trace of 
"difference" in our
> > > > dealings with people of other
> > > > cultures and ethnicities; we can suppress these
> > > > feelings and try to be
> > > > totally one with all the world, but in the long 
run,
> > > > it's better to
> > > > acknowledge the little bit of unconscious racism 
we
> > > > all carry around in us.
> > > > Acknowledging it won't make it go away, but it 
may
> > > > prevent it from biting us
> > > > in the butt or coming back to us inr dreams and
> > > > bizarre fantasies about
> > > > reincarnation.
> > > >
> > > > Jon
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Pepi Plowman 
<pepstoil@yahoo.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: 
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > > > >To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > > > >Subject: Re: let's try to do nuance
> > > > >Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:58:22 
-0800 (PST)
> > > > >
> > > > >Mike, this is getting ridiculous!  I 
really
> > > > can't
> > > > >answer questions that have no basis 
in any
> > > > knowledge
> > > > >other than a set-in-stone, 
vituperative point of
> > > > view.
> > > > >  So rather than answer your 
questions, I will
> > > > tell you
> > > > >a little bit about myself and my 
sisters.
> > > > >
> > > > >First of all, the Plowman girls are 
all pretty
> > > > >consciously psychic.  Which is to 
say, we are
> > > > privy to
> > > > >circumstances, feelings, vibes, 
future events,
> > > > AND
> > > > >past ones, by virtue of staying in 
touch with
> > > > that
> > > > >part of ourselves.  It can happen in 
waking life
> > > > as
> > > > >well as in the dream world.  I would 
think that
> > > > >everyone has this same capacity, but 
most don't
> > > > access
> > > > >it.  With good reason.  Sometimes it 
can be
> > > > scary.
> > > > >
> > > > >Two of my sisters, the one in 
question, as well
> > > > as
> > > > >another, believe they were burned in 
the ovens
> > > > as Jews
> > > > >in their lifetime immediately 
previous to this
> > > > one.
> > > > >I, however, was a Buddhist monk, 
traveling on
> > > > the
> > > > >Asian island I lived on.  We had 
camped in a
> > > > bombed
> > > > >out temple for the night.  I hated 
women in that
> > > > >lifetime, considering them the 
lowest of the
> > > > low,
> > > > >which accounts for my having the 
sexism problem
> > > > I have
> > > > >in this lifetime.  I perceive myself 
as a man in
> > > > a
> > > > >woman's body, but I'm a homosexual 
man, so I
> > > > love men.
> > > > >  Sounds weird, I know.  But anyway, 
we were
> > > > bombed
> > > > >again in that temple, and I went 
skyrocketing up
> > > > to
> > > > >come down, very ambivalently, I 
might add, into
> > > > my
> > > > >mother's womb in the Philippines.  
My parents
> > > > spent
> > > > >four years in the Philippines in a 
Japanese
> > > > prison
> > > > >camp where both I and my older 
sister were born.
> > > > >
> > > > >This same older sister emigrated to 
Israel as a
> > > > Jew.
> > > > >She lived in Eilat for eight years 
and taught in
> > > > >kubbutzi, speaks Hebrew (I'll be YOU 
don't!),
> > > > had a
> > > > >beautiful girl child by an Iraqi Jew 
whom she
> > > > adored.
> > > > >I would say, if anything, my sisters 
are
> > > > products of
> > > > >my parents' view--having known 
people from the
> > > > world
> > > > >over--they love ALL people.
> > > > >
> > > > >My mother lived in Japan for seven 
years
> > > > previous to
> > > > >WWII and corresponded after the war 
with many
> > > > Japanese
> > > > >friends she had there.  She returned 
in the 80s
> > > > to
> > > > >Japan to see them again and stayed 
for two
> > > > years.
> > > > >This is after having been virtually 
starved to
> > > > death
> > > > >by them.  They ate slugs fried in 
cold cream,
> > > > >grasshoppers, anything they could 
get their
> > > > hands on.
> > > > >My father weighed 75 lbs. when we 
were
> > > > liberated.
> > > > >
> > > > >Hate is too ennervating an emotion 
to allow
> > > > oneself to
> > > > >indulge in.  I, personally, am 
estranged from
> > > > it,
> > > > >thankfully.  I may not be thrilled 
with cops (or
> > > > >authority of any kind), but that's 
just because
> > > > I'm a
> > > > >hardhead and can't stand people 
telling me what
> > > > to
> > > > >do--but hate? I don't think so.
> > > > >
> > > > >Please know that there are a million 
ways to
> > > > skin a
> > > > >cat, a million points of view, not 
one of them
> > > > the
> > > > >"truth", 
except to the person who
> > > > perceives them.
> > > > >Your truth is yours and you're 
entitled to it.
> > > > My
> > > > >truth is mine and I'm entitled to 
it.  You can
> > > > call it
> > > > >what you like, I can call yours what 
I like, but
> > > > will
> > > > >that really change anything or make 
any kind of
> > > > >difference? I think not.  Rather 
than engage in
> > > > a
> > > > >useless badinage, let's just be who 
we are and
> > > > allow
> > > > >others the same.
> > > > >
> > > > >But may you not hate too much, it's 
bad for the
> > > > soul
> > > > >(I know, you don't believe in its 
existence.
> > > > Oh,
> > > > >well, so be it).
> > > > >
> > > > >Pepi
> > > > >--- Michael Eisenstadt
> > > > <michaele@ando.pair.com> 
wrote:
> > > > > > Pepi wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jon and 
Mike,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Think 
what you like.  It's obvious
> > > > you can't read.
> > > > > >  I
> > > > > > > NEVER 
said that Israelis are reborn
> > > > Nazis--my
> > > > > > SISTER
> > > > > > > did.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then your sister is a 
good hater. Are you
> > > > proud of
> > > > > > her?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Did you quote her 
because you didn't agree
> > > > with the
> > > > > > thought?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Or did you quote her 
because you did
> > > > agree?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In one of your posts 
you asked me how do I
> > > > know the
> > > > > > Israelis are not 
reborn Nazis. What were
> > > > you getting
> > > > > > at?
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >=== message truncated ===
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________
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> >
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