let's not do nuance

[Judith M. Herr]

Yet, when we are really stuck, we call on my mother for advice - and, =
she's
been dead 17 years.  Of course, we know and remember her well....and, =
can
put ourselves in her place because we listened to the stories and =
watched
her life.  Even Monty the ultimate humanist with no interest in God =
stuff
at all, has shared times with her. =20



-----Original Message-----
From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Wayne =
Johnson
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:20 AM
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Subject: Re: let's not do nuance

I certainly hope so.  I very much believe in the respecting the dead.  I
don't step on graves and I when I am in graveyards taking photographs I =
try
to be ultra careful and ultra respectful.  I do medidate in  these times =
on
the possible lives of the people whose names and photographs I see =
there.
Death is sad and sadder still for those who die young.  Incidentally, I
extend this to notion to not eating lamb and veal.

Is there a human "spirit" and can it be "enhanced" or worse, crushed?  I
don't know.  Sometimes I read about or see examples of human love, =
courage
and creativity that make me weep for joy.  Othertimes, well, you know =
the
"other times" as well as I.  We may be starting a period of "darkness"
unsurpassed in a thousand years, as in (feudal) corporate-socialism (the
ultimate facist state) which will endeavor to create two distinct =
classes:
lords and serfs.  One with education and all the money, the other with =
dull
minds, strongs backs and cheap body parts.

Harry Houdini, who was nothing if not invested with curiousity about the
after life, supposedly told his wife that if there was a "way" to come
back,
he would.  There is no account of his success from this, his final
disappearing act.

Gee I hope there is some other, transcendental experience, but I fear it =
is
just that, wishful thinking.

wj
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Monty/Judy" <m.herr@comcast.net>
To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 10:55 PM
Subject: RE: let's not do nuance


> But, to the extent that our families and friends remember us and tell =
the
> stories, our spirits are immortal.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
> [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of telebob
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:07 PM
> To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> Subject: RE: let's not do nuance
>
> Wayne-
>
> I think as you do, and thank you for reminding us that most priests =
and
> factotems are basically criminals who spread cultural myths (all the
better
> if they believe what they preach, it makes it easier for them to =
sleep)in
> order to retain and extend personal and institutional power.  This is =
not
> to
> say that there are no benefits, since those common mythyologies help =
to
> create a 'public order' no matter what the standard.  Are religious
> societies 'better' than secular societies?  How do we measure?  These =
are
> topics worthy of millions of tomes, and indeed you know they are out
there
> discussing this shit still, like a bunch of sophomores who have just
> dicovered 'philosophy'.
>
> But my dad, who was a doctor, was in a 'philosophical' mood one night, =
a
> little in his cups, and he related.  "I watch people die and people =
born
> every day as a part of my job, and all I can say is, 'Where does the
flame
> go when it goes out?'  Does the flame have a soul?" He was not a
religious
> man, though he tried to keep up appearances. On the other hand, he was
> 'moral' person who enjoyed overpaying his taxes and never breaking a
> traffic
> law.
>
> So when we are approached by 'holy men' of any stripe, know you are =
being
> approached by the powers of darkness. This includes rabbis, priests,
> mullahs, and most medicine men.  I put my faith in the scientific =
method
> and
> its self correcting process.
>
> What do we have to look forward to?  The peace of the grave.  Heaven =
is
> here
> on earth, make the best of it. People who identify with their =
'religions'
> are essentially deciding which 'team' they want to play on.  Imagine =
it
as
> though all religions are just sports teams, and you are free to join =
or
> not.
> But if you put on the uniform, then you have to play for your side, =
and
you
> have to follow the coach and the quarterback's rules or get thrown out
for
> being a 'bad sport.'
>
> Religion and those who follow it are just like Roger says, tribal =
apes.
> God
> bless Thorsten Veblen and Madalyn Murray O'Hair.
>
> telegnostic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
> [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Wayne =
Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:20 PM
> To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> Subject: Re: let's not do nuance
>
>
> Oh, I wish I didn't feel compelled to write this.  I know, just know,
that
> I
> will surely regret it.  But I just can't find any sane and
> non-Transcendental argument for the existence of a "soul".  I really,
> really wish it were true and that we could all come back again, but my
> belief is that when the "biological" light goes out...it stays out.
> Finito!
> No mas!
>
> >From my perspective, we have some tens of thousands of years of
"wishful"
> thinking aided and abetted by a bunch of semi-literate, semi-criminals
who
> wish to profit by spreading mystical and irrational beliefs.  Did =
Arthur
go
> to Avalon?  Probably not, as much as I would like it to be so. Ain't
going
> to see him again.  Nor any other person what has kicked the =
"biological"
> bucket.  Doornails is doornails and when you is gone, you is over.
>
> So.  What do I have to look forward to?  Not a damn thing.  Is that
> existential or what?
>
> Cheers until then...."Happy Trails to You, until we meet again".
>
> wj
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pepi Plowman" <pepstoil@yahoo.com>
> To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:32 PM
> Subject: Re: let's try to do nuance
>
>
> >
> > --- Michael Eisenstadt <michaele@ando.pair.com> wrote:
> > > Pepi,
> > >
> > > Thanks for writing at length about this.
> > >
> > > No, I don't speak it.
> > >
> > > In Hebrew school (to prepare for confirmation at 13
> > > for the sake of my religious grandmother who would
> > > have had a fit if I wasn't confirmed), we used to
> > > say
> > > Baruch ator, I don't know anymore.
> > >
> > > Baruch ator are the first 2 words of all the
> > > prayers.
> > > Actually we worked our way through quite a bit of
> > > Genesis reading it in the original which was my
> > > original
> > > introduction to the ENORMOUS charm of reading a
> > > foreign language.When I slowly worked my way through
> > >
> > > one of the books of the Iliad in the original many
> > > years
> > > later, I thought back to Miss Snow with the enormous
> > >
> > > boobs driving us like Gadarene swine through the
> > > beginning
> > > of the bible.
> >
> > Amusing visuals here!
> >
> > >
> > > As for your and your sisters' previous lives, that
> > > sounds
> > > like hard work.
> >
> > Seems like it always is.
> >
> > >
> > > Let me get this straight: the jews burnt in the
> > > ovens
> > > came back as the Plowman sisters (or some of the
> > > Plowman sisters); the Nazis who died came back as
> > > Israelis.
> > >
> > > I still come back to this simple question: if you
> > > and your
> > > sisters love all people all that much, how do you
> > > come
> > > to the conclusion that the Israelis are reborn
> > > Nazis?
> >
> > A few Israelis, perhaps.  Certainly, not all.  This is
> > merely supposition, in any case, as we both know.  But
> > I would say by observing the ones who manifest a
> > similar persona with a similar agenda (except for the
> > reversal of the victims), however you would describe a
> > Nazi.  Sharon, perhaps?  Hey, for all we know, Arafat
> > may have been a Jew in his past lifetime!
> > >
> >
> > > You write:
> > >
> > > > But may you not hate too much, it's bad for the
> > > soul
> > > > (I know, you don't believe in its existence.  Oh,
> > > > well, so be it).
> > >
> > > I'm not the hater. I was taking exception to other
> > > folks'
> > > hatred. Is that allowed in your scheme of things?
> >
> > You were taking exception to others with your
> > assumption that they hated--sometimes an incorrect
> > one.  And certainly, we've already been here...you're
> > allowed to be as incorrect as you like, and I'm
> > allowed to perceive you that way, whether you see it
> > that way or not.
> >
> > >
> > > And yes, it is totally bad for the soul. I believe
> > > in the
> > > existence of the soul, I just don't believe in its
> > > survival
> > > after death. That's for cowards who don't want to
> > > accept that they must die and stay dead.
> >
> > Death is a part of Life--they're not opposites--our
> > energies continue into perpetuity.  Any scientist will
> > tell you that there is no energy on earth that can be
> > made to disappear completely--it merely transforms
> > into something else.
> >
> > It has nothing to do with being a coward or not.   If
> > one leaves one's body and is awake, as everyone does
> > when sleeping, it's enough proof for me that there is
> > a soul. You're crossing a room.  No, you're floating
> > across the room.  You look down at your body.  No
> > body.  A light the color of a Peace Rose.  Is that
> > Life?
> >
> > >
> > > And I aint got no agenda.
> >
> > Well, good, I'm glad to hear that!
> >
> >  If you or others want to
> > > believe in up to 5 impossible things before
> > > breakfast
> > > like the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland, hey! be
> > > my guest!
> > >
> > Thanks, my friend, for taking a different tone with
> > me.
> >
> > Best to you,
> >
> > Pepi
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > P.S. When it comes to learning foreign languages,
> > > unless
> > > one is a very talented linguini, you hafta choose
> > > which
> > > one or two or three is it is worth learning in terms
> > > of
> > > what's written in said languages. Having been an
> > > Asian monk
> > > in a previous life, have you learnt or remembered
> > > how to
> > > speak or read Asian monk books? Or is that
> > > considered
> > > unnecessary.
> > >
> > Mostly, as I understand it, a veil drops when people
> > are born, hiding past lives from them.  Some people
> > have bleedthroughs, like me and my sisters.  I have
> > the ability (and so do my sisters) to learn any
> > language on earth, if we were to spend time in that
> > country.  I've had Chinese friends and learned a few
> > words from them, but I've never been immersed in the
> > language; I've taken a couple of semesters of
> > Japanese, have a great accent and that is all--I loved
> > writing the kanji; the same could be said for German,
> > except I took it in high school for two years and
> > never opened the book (I thought it an ugly language);
> > I speak and write Spanish and French; defend myself in
> > Italian; have translated Portuguese; took three years
> > of Latin (but never bothered to study, so can't say I
> > really know it); can understand just about any Latin-
> > based language when spoken to me.  My sister speaks
> > and writes really GOOD Spanish, Italian, French and
> > German; speaks Hebrew and some Arabic; wants to learn
> > Russian.  I want to learn Chinese.  Life isn't long
> > enough to learn every language or to remember every
> > past life.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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>