let's not do nuance
Gerry Storm
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Sun Mar 28 12:00:20 2004
Well, Bubba, ol' pal, I've been sitting and reading your series of religion
essays and resisting the temptation to reply since I basically disagree with
you on almost every point...you and your syncophant the capitalist candle
maker and late night alcho-guru. And, I might add that I agree with Pepi on
almost every aspect. Your lack of depth and understanding, your stubborn,
backward spins on religion and church and the afterlife and spirituality in
general are not consistent with your typically informed observations (which
I generally respect). You are out of step, ignoring the beat.
I recall your previous posts about the Zen Center in NorCal which you
attended in the 70's. I supposed that this was a positive experience for you
and that you absorbed some basic Buddhism and the ability to meditate. No?
You don't believe there is a way to greater understanding of the mysteries
of the universe? Or you have given up the effort because for some reason you
were not satisfied with the results? You don't believe there are teachers
out there who can help you progress? They are all charlatans? The Zen
Masters are con artists? Harry Houdini is your idea of a spiritual leader?
Come now, Bubba. Sounds to me like you have the blinders on. I know that
Saturn is transiting through your sign and may have you in such a state of
denial and percieved limitation that you are allowing your depression to
rule. Fight against it. It will soon pass. Don't let it bury you in
negativism.
Death is death, younger or older makes little difference. One perspective is
that those who die young are the most fortunate since they are spared the
pain of aging and suffering. Many see death as the ultimate release, a time
of celebration rather than a morbid downer of dark feelings. Once again, it
is your choice. Cry over it or accept it and move on. When it's over it's
over. It is not the dead you suffer over, it is your own sorry ass, pitying
yourself because you have to change to compensate for the "loss". Change and
loss are normal, not an aberration.
The spirit guides will help you if you ask them, not at all complicated. If
you don't give it a good try, they don't seem to particularly give a damn. I
prefer to believe that we can progress in each life cycle and the worst we
can do is blow off the opportunity to do so behind some kind of negative,
fear based arrogance, some pseudo-intellectual BS.
May I suggest that you move beyond the headlines and the current events and
ponder the passing of the natural cycles. Spirituality is not an
intellectual exercise, remember? By turning off the intellect you allow the
cognitive to rise. Rationality is often the greatest barrier to truth. It
is spring and the life cycle is all around us, so much being born, so much
life! Join in!
G
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net>
To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: let's not do nuance
> I certainly hope so. I very much believe in the respecting the dead. I
> don't step on graves and I when I am in graveyards taking photographs I
try
> to be ultra careful and ultra respectful. I do medidate in these times
on
> the possible lives of the people whose names and photographs I see there.
> Death is sad and sadder still for those who die young. Incidentally, I
> extend this to notion to not eating lamb and veal.
>
> Is there a human "spirit" and can it be "enhanced" or worse, crushed? I
> don't know. Sometimes I read about or see examples of human love, courage
> and creativity that make me weep for joy. Othertimes, well, you know the
> "other times" as well as I. We may be starting a period of "darkness"
> unsurpassed in a thousand years, as in (feudal) corporate-socialism (the
> ultimate facist state) which will endeavor to create two distinct classes:
> lords and serfs. One with education and all the money, the other with
dull
> minds, strongs backs and cheap body parts.
>
> Harry Houdini, who was nothing if not invested with curiousity about the
> after life, supposedly told his wife that if there was a "way" to come
back,
> he would. There is no account of his success from this, his final
> disappearing act.
>
> Gee I hope there is some other, transcendental experience, but I fear it
is
> just that, wishful thinking.
>
> wj
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Monty/Judy" <m.herr@comcast.net>
> To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 10:55 PM
> Subject: RE: let's not do nuance
>
>
> > But, to the extent that our families and friends remember us and tell
the
> > stories, our spirits are immortal.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
> > [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of telebob
> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:07 PM
> > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > Subject: RE: let's not do nuance
> >
> > Wayne-
> >
> > I think as you do, and thank you for reminding us that most priests and
> > factotems are basically criminals who spread cultural myths (all the
> better
> > if they believe what they preach, it makes it easier for them to
sleep)in
> > order to retain and extend personal and institutional power. This is
not
> > to
> > say that there are no benefits, since those common mythyologies help to
> > create a 'public order' no matter what the standard. Are religious
> > societies 'better' than secular societies? How do we measure? These
are
> > topics worthy of millions of tomes, and indeed you know they are out
there
> > discussing this shit still, like a bunch of sophomores who have just
> > dicovered 'philosophy'.
> >
> > But my dad, who was a doctor, was in a 'philosophical' mood one night, a
> > little in his cups, and he related. "I watch people die and people born
> > every day as a part of my job, and all I can say is, 'Where does the
flame
> > go when it goes out?' Does the flame have a soul?" He was not a
religious
> > man, though he tried to keep up appearances. On the other hand, he was
> > 'moral' person who enjoyed overpaying his taxes and never breaking a
> > traffic
> > law.
> >
> > So when we are approached by 'holy men' of any stripe, know you are
being
> > approached by the powers of darkness. This includes rabbis, priests,
> > mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my faith in the scientific method
> > and
> > its self correcting process.
> >
> > What do we have to look forward to? The peace of the grave. Heaven is
> > here
> > on earth, make the best of it. People who identify with their
'religions'
> > are essentially deciding which 'team' they want to play on. Imagine it
as
> > though all religions are just sports teams, and you are free to join or
> > not.
> > But if you put on the uniform, then you have to play for your side, and
> you
> > have to follow the coach and the quarterback's rules or get thrown out
for
> > being a 'bad sport.'
> >
> > Religion and those who follow it are just like Roger says, tribal apes.
> > God
> > bless Thorsten Veblen and Madalyn Murray O'Hair.
> >
> > telegnostic
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
> > [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Wayne Johnson
> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:20 PM
> > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > Subject: Re: let's not do nuance
> >
> >
> > Oh, I wish I didn't feel compelled to write this. I know, just know,
that
> > I
> > will surely regret it. But I just can't find any sane and
> > non-Transcendental argument for the existence of a "soul". I really,
> > really wish it were true and that we could all come back again, but my
> > belief is that when the "biological" light goes out...it stays out.
> > Finito!
> > No mas!
> >
> > >From my perspective, we have some tens of thousands of years of
"wishful"
> > thinking aided and abetted by a bunch of semi-literate, semi-criminals
who
> > wish to profit by spreading mystical and irrational beliefs. Did Arthur
> go
> > to Avalon? Probably not, as much as I would like it to be so. Ain't
going
> > to see him again. Nor any other person what has kicked the "biological"
> > bucket. Doornails is doornails and when you is gone, you is over.
> >
> > So. What do I have to look forward to? Not a damn thing. Is that
> > existential or what?
> >
> > Cheers until then...."Happy Trails to You, until we meet again".
> >
> > wj
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pepi Plowman" <pepstoil@yahoo.com>
> > To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: let's try to do nuance
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --- Michael Eisenstadt <michaele@ando.pair.com> wrote:
> > > > Pepi,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for writing at length about this.
> > > >
> > > > No, I don't speak it.
> > > >
> > > > In Hebrew school (to prepare for confirmation at 13
> > > > for the sake of my religious grandmother who would
> > > > have had a fit if I wasn't confirmed), we used to
> > > > say
> > > > Baruch ator, I don't know anymore.
> > > >
> > > > Baruch ator are the first 2 words of all the
> > > > prayers.
> > > > Actually we worked our way through quite a bit of
> > > > Genesis reading it in the original which was my
> > > > original
> > > > introduction to the ENORMOUS charm of reading a
> > > > foreign language.When I slowly worked my way through
> > > >
> > > > one of the books of the Iliad in the original many
> > > > years
> > > > later, I thought back to Miss Snow with the enormous
> > > >
> > > > boobs driving us like Gadarene swine through the
> > > > beginning
> > > > of the bible.
> > >
> > > Amusing visuals here!
> > >
> > > >
> > > > As for your and your sisters' previous lives, that
> > > > sounds
> > > > like hard work.
> > >
> > > Seems like it always is.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Let me get this straight: the jews burnt in the
> > > > ovens
> > > > came back as the Plowman sisters (or some of the
> > > > Plowman sisters); the Nazis who died came back as
> > > > Israelis.
> > > >
> > > > I still come back to this simple question: if you
> > > > and your
> > > > sisters love all people all that much, how do you
> > > > come
> > > > to the conclusion that the Israelis are reborn
> > > > Nazis?
> > >
> > > A few Israelis, perhaps. Certainly, not all. This is
> > > merely supposition, in any case, as we both know. But
> > > I would say by observing the ones who manifest a
> > > similar persona with a similar agenda (except for the
> > > reversal of the victims), however you would describe a
> > > Nazi. Sharon, perhaps? Hey, for all we know, Arafat
> > > may have been a Jew in his past lifetime!
> > > >
> > >
> > > > You write:
> > > >
> > > > > But may you not hate too much, it's bad for the
> > > > soul
> > > > > (I know, you don't believe in its existence. Oh,
> > > > > well, so be it).
> > > >
> > > > I'm not the hater. I was taking exception to other
> > > > folks'
> > > > hatred. Is that allowed in your scheme of things?
> > >
> > > You were taking exception to others with your
> > > assumption that they hated--sometimes an incorrect
> > > one. And certainly, we've already been here...you're
> > > allowed to be as incorrect as you like, and I'm
> > > allowed to perceive you that way, whether you see it
> > > that way or not.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > And yes, it is totally bad for the soul. I believe
> > > > in the
> > > > existence of the soul, I just don't believe in its
> > > > survival
> > > > after death. That's for cowards who don't want to
> > > > accept that they must die and stay dead.
> > >
> > > Death is a part of Life--they're not opposites--our
> > > energies continue into perpetuity. Any scientist will
> > > tell you that there is no energy on earth that can be
> > > made to disappear completely--it merely transforms
> > > into something else.
> > >
> > > It has nothing to do with being a coward or not. If
> > > one leaves one's body and is awake, as everyone does
> > > when sleeping, it's enough proof for me that there is
> > > a soul. You're crossing a room. No, you're floating
> > > across the room. You look down at your body. No
> > > body. A light the color of a Peace Rose. Is that
> > > Life?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > And I aint got no agenda.
> > >
> > > Well, good, I'm glad to hear that!
> > >
> > > If you or others want to
> > > > believe in up to 5 impossible things before
> > > > breakfast
> > > > like the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland, hey! be
> > > > my guest!
> > > >
> > > Thanks, my friend, for taking a different tone with
> > > me.
> > >
> > > Best to you,
> > >
> > > Pepi
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > P.S. When it comes to learning foreign languages,
> > > > unless
> > > > one is a very talented linguini, you hafta choose
> > > > which
> > > > one or two or three is it is worth learning in terms
> > > > of
> > > > what's written in said languages. Having been an
> > > > Asian monk
> > > > in a previous life, have you learnt or remembered
> > > > how to
> > > > speak or read Asian monk books? Or is that
> > > > considered
> > > > unnecessary.
> > > >
> > > Mostly, as I understand it, a veil drops when people
> > > are born, hiding past lives from them. Some people
> > > have bleedthroughs, like me and my sisters. I have
> > > the ability (and so do my sisters) to learn any
> > > language on earth, if we were to spend time in that
> > > country. I've had Chinese friends and learned a few
> > > words from them, but I've never been immersed in the
> > > language; I've taken a couple of semesters of
> > > Japanese, have a great accent and that is all--I loved
> > > writing the kanji; the same could be said for German,
> > > except I took it in high school for two years and
> > > never opened the book (I thought it an ugly language);
> > > I speak and write Spanish and French; defend myself in
> > > Italian; have translated Portuguese; took three years
> > > of Latin (but never bothered to study, so can't say I
> > > really know it); can understand just about any Latin-
> > > based language when spoken to me. My sister speaks
> > > and writes really GOOD Spanish, Italian, French and
> > > German; speaks Hebrew and some Arabic; wants to learn
> > > Russian. I want to learn Chinese. Life isn't long
> > > enough to learn every language or to remember every
> > > past life.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
> > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>