[Austin-ghetto-list] USA through other eyes

[Wayne Johnson]

The Israeli-Palestinian quagmire is not the major issue here.  Oh, it surely
provides a "rationale" to these guys.  Lets get together and kick some
Zionist ass because some twenty-year old soldiers from the Bronx or Brooklyn
were housed at a Saudi air base for awhile.  But they want more, lots more.
Indeed, they would like to "enshroud" the women of the world so they could
retreat back to their 7th Century nomadic/male dominated fantasy life.
Some of the more radical ones want to tear down the "infidel" pyramids!!
Talk about brain dead.

Sadly, there are a lot of dirty hands all around.  But "ownership" by
History is a very dangerous argument.  There were "kingdoms" all over the
bloody, repeat: bloody, place in the 3 to 4 thousand year history BC and
later.  No one was created "in situ".  Bedouin roamed all over the map and
actually had NO homes to speak of.  Religious centers only existed in Saudi
Arabia following Mohammat, I believe.  Historically, lots and lots of
religious centers to the North.  Lots.  Not one connected to current Islam
by tradition and few by blood lines.  Syria/Lebanon/Iraq/Israel...lots of
"religions" there over the Millenia.   Clearly, these people have just as
much innate rights to these areas as Moslems would claim to have over Medina
and Mecca.  So far as time could argue, much more claim.

But the Palestinian question isn't just about "homeland" it has always been
about oil.  British Petroleum (and Churchill) redrew the local map following
the Sikes/Picot (sp?) treaty after WWI (and TE Lawrence.)  Recall virtually
all of this area belonged to the Ottoman Empire. There have been decades of
opportunity to resolve the displaced Palestinians but they have been too
useful a tool for other political/economic/military interests.  How much
money did the Saudis EVER contribute to help Palestinian refugees?  Any?
Hell, they could have lined the streets with BMWs had they chosen to do so.
But...uh...Saudis aren't "related" to Palestinians.  Don't count THEIR
spritual lineage back to Mohammad the same way.  Therefore, I guess, it was
ok to say to heck with 'em.

Personally, I find the Likud to be as guilty of parochial/right wing
thinking as anyone in the region.  I don't like conservative religious
beliefs of any persuasion.  But then, I didn't lose 6 to 7 MILLION
kinsmen/women and relatives in the Holocaust either.  Should there be a
"viable" Jewish state in the Middle East?

Absolutely yes.

And there are others who deserve a homeland as well who have suffered
horrific pogroms and "ethnic cleansing" in the past - Armenians and Kurds
come immediately to mind.

Maps are always redrawn by the winners.

Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Michael
Eisenstadt
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 11:52 AM
To: EarthAnjel@aol.com
Cc: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Subject: Re: [Austin-ghetto-list] USA through other eyes


> From my perspective, this is all very confusing.  I don't know who's
> right or who's wrong.  I don't hate anybody, Jew or Palestinian.  But
> the bloody fight that has been going on between Israel and the
> Palestinians for over 5 decades now has surely contributed to this
> dreadful situation that now permeates the entire world.

Carol,

The Islam religion is different from Christianity in that
it considers that land once conquered by Islam can NEVER
be ruled by non Islams. This is especially so for Saudia
Arabia where Mecca is. This land used to be forbidden
to Jews. The first Jew in modern times to my knowledge who
ever went there was Henry Kissinger around 1972. I well
remember Lanny Wiggin's wife jibing at me that she and
Lanny could go there where Lanny worked as an engineer
but I couldnt, this was in the 60s. Lanny is Ramsey
Wiggin's estranged brother.

So for a religious Moslem the presence of American military
bases in Saudia Arabia is an unacceptable desecration of
the most holy places. Among those American troops are...
jews. Yes, there are jewish US Army personnel in those
bases. To Islam this is sacrilege.

Yes the Jews to a Moslem may be desecrating holy lands
by RULING over part of historical Palestine (Jews and other
minorities were allowed to live in Islam lands in the
past but as subject people), but it is America which
maintains military bases in the most holy land, Saudia
Arabia. So it was America that was attacked, not Israel.

There are always certain persons with a questionable
attitude toward jews TO BEGIN WITH who can be expected
to put forth this line of argument, its the jews'
fault, a line of argument which in normal times is
usually kept quasi-hidden. Roger did it by forwarding
Wall Street Journal articles -- their attitude towards
the Israelis is ancient history, it is similar to Pat
Buchanan's.

So let us Americans abandon our military bases in
Saudia Arabia and let us repatriate the Israelis to
Alberta Canada. Let us all convert to Islam
(they are not racialists, anyone can convert)
and then we can watch movie videos indoors
from covert satelite dishes and have our women
folks walk around outside with a rag in front
of their faces.

Mike the pro-Zionist