Value Squandered (Was value added - long and acidic)

[Jim Baldauf]

Bob wrote:

>Here's only one  "value added" schema...<

(and)

>Whatever our flaws, and whatever crimes we have committed
against the world, they shrink before the success of mere free
markets and democracy...<

You are joking aren't you, Bob?
"Value added," indeed!
More like "value squandered," when
you consider the net energy sink all this
represents.
"Success of mere free markets and democracy.."?
Gimme a break!

Love & Peace
jb




OK Jon-

Here's only one  "value added" schema to illuminate my argument-

Product  Exported from USA-   Corn 2.5 billion bushels   exported
(This corn is fertilized by imported  nitrogen)


In today's global market, the economic success of the entire agricultural
sector depends on international trade. One of every five rows of corn grown
in the United States goes overseas. The USA also exports 'value-added' corn
products such as meat, dairy and poultry products, corn gluten feed,
plastics and corn syrup. There is no other sector of the U.S. economy where
the link between trade and prosperity is clearer than in agriculture.

NITROGEN
Ammonia
Most of the traded ammonia is used to manufacture fertilizers but
considerable quantities are used to produce industrial chemicals. Between
1986/88 and 1996/98 world ammonia trade increased from 8.2 to 11.2 million
tonnes N.
The main ammonia exporting regions in the 1996 to 1998 period were the FSU
(36% of world trade), Trinidad, Mexico and Venezuela (19%), the Near East
(12%).
The main importers were West Europe, the USA, and certain Asian countries.
Etc etc
****************************************************************************
********************
There are literally 1000's of products manufactured in the US by US
companies utilizing raw materials and energy imported from the rest of the
world. Should I mention (Boeing) aircraft, machine tools, electronics,
petrochemicals, steel products, and so on ad infinitum? There is 'value
added' in every one of these products.

This is not to say that people in the United States do not receive a
disproportionate amount of the world's goods and services.  We are rich.  We
should be.  We have worked hard, and we work smart. We live in comfort
compared to many cultures in the rest of the world.  However, if you have
spent much time in Western Europe, you can see that comfort and riches are
hardly confined to the North American continent.  We (and the Europeans) use
the energy of the world to create products that are sold back to the world
at ..yes A PROFIT.. so shocking. (But not unusual to see that we use an
disproportionate amount of energy and materials to create these products.)

Jon you seem to find that to be offensive. Even more, you seem to resent the
success that the USA has enjoyed over the last 200 years and feel that our
success is built on the bones of crushed economies and the labor of the
oppressed in world sweatshops..

Well Jon it just isn't true.  Whatever our flaws, and whatever crimes we
have committed against the world, they shrink before the success of mere
free markets and democracy.  It is not a zero sum game.  Our labor, capital,
and ingenuity have created this wealth.  It is not wealth that had to be
'stolen' from others. (Though 'we' did have to take the continent from the
Native Americans..but I am sure the Neanderthals resented the rise of modern
Homo Sapiens too.)  The Marxist paradigm has been shown to be empirically
vacant.  Marx was good at describing inequities and the flaws of
socio/economic models, but his solutions were naïve in the extreme and
ultimately wrong.as proven in the laboratory of experience. You seem to be
forgetting that.

So you can call my "value added" comment "infamous" but I will be happy to
stand behind it any day, and yes, you can say I belong to the "My country
right or wrong." Even if that is not exactly true..It certainly IS MY
COUNTRY and I am happy to be considered American wherever I happen to be in
the world.  As to whether we are "right or wrong".when we are right, I
support it, when we are wrong, I will work to change it or modify.but I
would never rush to blame my own country for the ills of the world.

The remarkable thing is that you seem to posit that the "International
Corporate Model is an American invention, and that we are the main
villains.if there are actually villains. You seem to find the whole idea of
labor for 'profit' to be execrable, and worse, you find the fact that people
desire goods and services to be problematic as well.  Perhaps you would like
things to be produced in OZ under the guidance of saintly sorts who never
exploit a cheaper labor market or a geopolitical advantage? This is almost a
Ted Kazynski like argument.

I will ignore the 'ad hominum' attacks in your retort, except to say. please
check our website at

www.ticonet.com

and make your judgement about the horrid nature of what we do.  I don't
notice people attacking the phone company for allowing naughty things to be
said on its wires.  Our job does not include patrolling the morality of our
clients.  People like to play games, and I would really hate to live in a
world designed by the moralists.like the Taliban or others who like to tell
people what they should be doing.or what constitutes correct thought.

The weird thing is..I now have the feeling that you Jon, and a few other of
the "blame America first"  crowd, seem to have more in sympathy with Bin
Laden than you do with ordinary Americans, and I find that repugnant.

Cordially.and you can stuff it too,

tele




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