something we ignore in the stats

[telebob x]

Well I noticed something interesting too....the fact that you totally 
ignored the point of my original post and fixed on the 'tone' of the post 
rather than the simple idea that the USA is not quite the energy and 
resource hog that many of the stats imply since so many of the raw materials 
imported have 'value added' and then are re-exported to the world.

Perhaps you would care to address that issue?

As for the crack about Jon as a Zen master or Roger as a millionaire...well 
I would just have to say that you have either come to this list in mid game 
or you haven't paid much attention to our (usually) good humored jousting.

And BTW, do I remember you around the Ghetto?  How'd you get in here anyway?


tele

PS- I don't really need to have my "emotion laden" phrases pointed out.  
That is the way I meant them...and you are SO observant to catch them as 
such.

Guatemala  - Good god. That was 1954. Do you remember the cold war? How old 
are you anyway? Yes, and Henry Fucking Kissinger...killer of Allende gets a 
medal, and yes, the USA installed the Shah, and white settlers killed the 
native Americans, and Joe Stalin killed 40 million of his own people....and 
this was before WWII came along and killed another 8 million Russians....

And every industry is "self-serving" or it wouldn't be in business or do 
what it does...but hey, nothing gets past you does it?

And do I want to stifle freedom of speech?...hardly...I want you talking a 
lot. However do I want to "demonize" a target group...not exactly; I want to 
demonize the bias and selective evidence used by some to further their 
arguments.

And how the hell did Jean LaFitte get into this....? First the Arbenz 
Guatemala reference...then Privateering.....I musta missed something...
goodnight



>From: "Don  Laird" <dlaird1@austin.rr.com>
>To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
>CC: <dlaird1@austin.rr.com>
>Subject: Re: something we ignore in the stats
>Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:28:56 -0500
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: telebob x <telebob98@hotmail.com>
>To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 2:10 PM
>Subject: something we ignore in the stats
>
>
>the PR heat, >
>USA haters >
> > critics want to bitch >
> > ...maybe we should all go back to being Zen saints like Jon or retired
> > millionaires like Roger?
> >
> > telegrump
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
>
>
>There are some problems with the above excerpted phrases.  First, "the PR
>heat."  The public relations industry, founded and developed in the U.S., 
>is
>an industry focused on persuasion, self-serving goals, and deceit.  The PR
>industry does not attack the U.S. - it tends to promote the U.S., as when
>Edward Bernays helped the U.S. deceive the American public about the U.S.
>overthrow of Guatemala's democratically-elected government.
>
>"USA haters."   To cite negative facts about or to criticize one's
>government is not to demonstrate hatred for one's government.  Such an
>emotion-based phrase seems to reflect an emotional intolerance for freedom
>of speech, combined with a generalized attack on a select group of people.
>The phrase seems to demonize its target.
>
>"critics want to bitch."  Another example of an emotion-laden phrase.  Note
>how this phrase, like the previous examples, is general rather than
>specific.  It also projects desires to the general group, the group that
>"wants to."
>
>Finally, the personal references.  While the names are specific, their
>nature or condition is rather general.  I'd imagine the implications are
>negative.  Unfortunately, I can't see any relevance of Zen or millionaire
>status to the rest of the message.  Its best characterization may already
>have been made:  grumpy.
>
>                                            
>---------------------------------
>----------------------------
>The topic of the Taliban doing nothing wrong in harboring bin Laden and his
>training camps reminds me of history, the history of piracy.   While piracy
>is an international crime and is not governmentally-authorized robbery and
>killing, profiteering is.  Under the U.S. Constitution, Congress could 
>issue
>"letters of marque" and therefore make use of privateers during wartime.
>That is, pirates who preyed on the civilian and military-related commerce 
>of
>the enemy.  Privateering was carried on during the American Revolution, the
>War of 1812, and by the confederacy during the Civil War.  The U.S., having
>failed to support the Declaration of Paris of 1856, which abolished
>privateering, renounced privateering during the Spanish-American War.
>
>Since the privateers were similar to terrorists and engaged in "crimes
>against humanity," we can consider whether or not it would be appropriate 
>to
>characterize the U.S. as harboring terrorists during that era.
>
>The piracy of Jean LaFitte eventually allowed him to fight under General
>Andrew Jackson.  After that war (of 1812), LaFitte moved to Galveston and
>returned to piracy.  He remained there with his 1000 followers for years,
>unmolested, until he attacked an American merchant vessel.  LaFitte was
>allowed to leave peacefully.
>
>Don
>
>


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