why sudden silence?

Jon Ford jonmfordster@hotmail.com
Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:53:40 -0800


<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Roger-- great reply to Hitchens' smug little piece. He does sound a lot like Bob, doesn't he? Must be contagious!</P>
<P>Jon</P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;From: Roger Baker <RCBAKER@EDEN.INFOHWY.COM>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Re: why sudden silence? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:50:29 -0800 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;On Thursday, November 15, 2001, at 08:14 AM, telebob x wrote: 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Gee, what has happened to the usual drumbeat of defeat from Roger, 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Jon, et al ? Shocking! 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;The USA did something right again. And not for the wrong reasons 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;either. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;tele 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;OK already. You can't bomb your way to security in the modern world. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;What we have done 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;in the case of Afghanistan is to create a malignant tumor of misery 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;that may well topple the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;really big dominos of Pakistan, where the population is ten times 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;the size of Afghanistan, or 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Saudi Arabia, from whence the terrorists and oil come. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;I also reply to Hitchens at the bottom, whose journalistic skirts 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;teleboob is hiding behind, 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;rather than expressing a sound opinion of his own. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;But first, the following bit of sensible perspective on the big 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;picture from Z mag. -- Roger 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;***************************************************** 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; http://www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;The Irish Times 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;November 14, 2001 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Kabul's fall is no mark of US success 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;By Vincent Browne 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;The "success" in replacing the Taliban with the Northern Alliance in 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Kabul, even if followed by the capture of Osama bin Laden and his al 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Queda associates, almost certainly will make no difference to the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;security threat to the US and the West from terrorism. It may do the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;reverse. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;The scale of the threat to America and its allies is documented 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;again and again in a multitude of reports from official US 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;commissions and organizations over the last few years. These reports 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;describe the nature of the terrorist organizations that pose these 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;threats - the absence of hierarchical structures, the loose 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;connections between them, the spread of these organizations 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;throughout the world and within America, the lessening of reliance 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;on state sponsors, and the danger that one or more of these groups 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;may acquire nuclear or biological weapons. They also emphasize the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;vulnerability of the US to attack from these organizations. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;In Countering the Changing Threat of International Terrorism, a 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;report by the National Commission on Terrorism, published in June of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;last year, the following observation is made: "If al Queda and Osama 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;bin Laden were to disappear tomorrow, the United States would still 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;have potential terrorist threats from a growing number of groups 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;opposed to perceived American hegemony." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;The same report stated: "Because groups based on ideological or 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;religious motives may lack a specific political or nationalistic 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;agenda, they have less need for a hierarchical structure". It says 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;these groups "operate in the United States as well as abroad. Their 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;funding and logistical networks cross borders, are less dependent on 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;state sponsors and are harder to disrupt with economic sanctions. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Their objectives are more deadly (than terrorist groups of a decade 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;or two ago)". 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;The US Commission on National Security, co-chaired by former US 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;senator and presidential candidate, Gary Hart, stated in a report 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;published on February 15th of this year: "Attacks on American 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;citizens on American soil, possibly causing heavy casualties, are 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;likely over the next quarter century. These attacks may involve 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;weapons of mass destruction and weapons of mass disruption." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;A report in January of this year on the US Department of Energy's 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;non-proliferation programmes with Russia, chaired by former US 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;senator Howard Baker, and former presidential counsellor, Lloyd 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Cutler, is the most alarming. It says the old Soviet Union had a 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;nuclear arsenal of 40,000 weapons, over a thousand metric tons of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;nuclear materials, vast quantities of chemical and biological 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;materials and thousands of missiles. The quantity of remaining 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;highly enriched uranium (HEU) is enough to make more than 4,000 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;additional nuclear weapons. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;The US and Russian governments engaged in what is known as the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;"contract of the century" to destroy a great deal of this material 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;and to bring the remainder under secure control. But a great 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;proportion remains in insecure conditions. Worse, those "guarding" 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;this material are given a strong incentive to give some of it to 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;terrorists because of inadequate pay - often no pay at all for 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;months on end - and chaotic military control arrangements. The 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;report records a number of scarifying episodes: 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;In late 1998, conspirators at a Ministry of Autonomic Energy 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;facility in Chelyabinsk were caught attempting to steal fissile 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;material of a quantity just short of that needed for one nuclear 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;device. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;In early 1998, the mayor of Krasnoyarsk-45, a closed nuclear city 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;that stores enough HEU for hundreds of nuclear weapons, wrote to the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;governor of Krasnoyarsk warning that a social explosion in the city 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;was unavoidable unless urgent action was taken to pay nuclear 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;scientists and other workers, who had been unpaid for several 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;months. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;In December 1998, an employee of Russia's premier nuclear weapons 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;laboratory in Sarov was arrested for espionage and charged with 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;attempting to sell documents on nuclear weapons designs to agents of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Iraq and Afghanistan for $3 million. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Former US Senator Sam Nunn, who is co-chair of the Nuclear Threat 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Initiative, told the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;September 5th this year: "I am convinced the threat of a biological 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;weapons attack on the Untied States in as urgent as it is real." He 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;pointed out that the former Soviet Union engaged in a massive 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;programme of biological weapons manufacture, at one time employing 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;870,000 scientists. They manufactured 22 tons of smallpox, a tiny 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;fraction of which, if unleashed on the United States, would have 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;devastating effects. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;A report by the advisory panel to assess domestic response to 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;capabilities for terrorism involving weapons of mass destruction, 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;says: "The United States has no coherent, functional national 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;strategy for combating terrorism." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Aside from a single sentence in the Gary Hart report, there is no 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;attempt in any of these documents to decipher why terrorists might 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;want to attack America and what America might do to address the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;reasons for the hostility. This seems all the more surprising given 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;the scale of the threat and the vulnerability of America to 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;terrorist attack. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;And the reasons appear straightforward: the presence of American 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;troops in the Muslim holy land of Saudi Arabia; the historic 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;injustice perpetrated on the Palestinian people, an injustice 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;reinforced daily with the might of American arms; the sanctions on 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Iraq and the frequent bombings of that country; and above all, the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;perception that America is at war with the Islamic world. That 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;perception will have been reinforced hugely by the bombardment of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Afghanistan. Even after the fall of Kabul, America seems more 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;vulnerable. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; ************************************************* 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Ha ha ha 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;by 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Christopher Hitchens 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Wednesday November 14, 2001 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;The Guardian 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;There was a time in my life when I did a fair bit of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;work for the tempestuous Lucretia Stewart, then editor 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;of the American Express travel magazine, Departures. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Together, we evolved a harmless satire of the slightly 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;drivelling style employed by the journalists of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;tourism. "Land of Contrasts" was our shorthand for it. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;("Jerusalem: an enthralling blend of old and new." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;"South Africa: a harmony in black and white." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;"Belfast, where ancient meets modern.") It was as you 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;can see, no difficult task. I began to notice a few 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;weeks ago that my enemies in the "peace" movement had 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;decided to borrow from this tattered style book. The 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;mantra, especially in the letters to this newspaper, 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;was: "Afghanistan, where the world's richest country 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;rains bombs on the world's poorest country." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Isn't this true? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Poor fools. They should never have tried to beat me at 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;this game. What about, "Afghanistan, where the world's 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;most open society confronts the world's most closed 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;one"? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Bush is eliminating civil rights at an appalling rate in the name 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;of fighting terrorism, is he not? Here are some recent marching 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;orders for a newspaper: 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;" 'Don't Put Civilian Casualties on Page One' 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Â&nbsp; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Per Hal's order, DO NOT USE photos on Page 1A showing civilian 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;casualties from the U.S. war on Afghanistan. [Note: "Hal" is News 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Herald executive editor Hal Foster.] Our sister paper in Fort Walton 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Beach has done so and received hundreds and hundreds of threatening 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;e-mails and the like. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Also per Hal's order, DO NOT USE wire stories which lead with 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;civilian 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;casualties from the U.S. war on Afghanistan. They should be 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;mentioned 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;further down in the story. If the story needs rewriting to play down 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;civilian casualties, DO IT." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;"Where American women pilots kill the men who 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;enslave women." "Where the world's most indiscriminate 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;bombers are bombed by the world's most accurate ones." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;"Where the largest number of poor people applaud the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;bombing of their own regime." I could go on. (I think 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;number four may need a little work.) But there are 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;some suggested contrasts for the "doves" to paste into 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;their scrapbook. Incidentally, when they look at their 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;scrapbooks they will be able to re-read themselves 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;saying things like, "The bombing of Kosovo is driving 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;the Serbs into the arms of Milosevic." 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;If the silly policy of a Ramadan pause had been 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;adopted, the citizens of Kabul would have still been 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;under a regime of medieval cruelty, and their 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;oppresssors would have been busily regrouping, not 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;praying. Anyhow, what a damn-fool proposal to start 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;with. I don't stop insulting the Christian coalition 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;at Eastertime. Come Yom Kippur I tend to step up my 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;scornful remarks about Zionism. Whatever happened to 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;the robust secularism that used to help characterise 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;the left? And why is it suddenly only the injured 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;feelings of Muslims that count? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Starvation in northern Afghanistan should be a primary issue for 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;those who value human life. Will we now deliver the needed aid on 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;needed scale to prevent mass starvation or do we primarily care 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;about American lives like Bush? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;A couple of years ago, 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;the same people were striking pompous attitudes about 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;the need to avoid offending Serbian and therefore 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Russian Orthodox sensitivities. Except that those 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;sensitive people, or their leaders, were engaged in 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;putting the Muslims of Europe to the sword... 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;We are indeed the avenging angels of the world, but is our might 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;used to 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;promote justice or for expansionist corporate greed? When and where 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;does 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;the CIA intervene? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;There's no pleasing some people, but as a charter 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;supporter of CND I can remember a time when the peace 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;movement was not an auxiliary to dictators and 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;aggressors in trouble. Looking at some of the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;mind-rotting tripe that comes my way from much of 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;today's left, I get the impression that they go to bed 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;saying: what have I done for Saddam Hussein or good 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;old Slobodan or the Taliban today? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Is terrorism a symptom of deeper problems -- or is it the primary 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;problem for which bombs are the appropriate cure? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Well, ha ha ha, and yah, boo. It was obvious from the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;very start that the United States had no alternative 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;but to do what it has done. It was also obvious that 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;defeat was impossible. The Taliban will soon be 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;history. Al-Qaida will take longer. There will be 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;other mutants to fight. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;By bombing enough innocent civilians for it to become known 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;through the world of Islam and putting the Northern Alliance 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;in power, we have set the stage for later problems. Do we walk 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;away from the mess and tell the United Nations to clean it up? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;The points of potential vulnerabilty multiply in complex societies, 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;and these weak points become targets for the disaffected when 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;the narrow economic interests of the (corporate) empire undermine 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;the possibility of legitimate democratic opposition (like Bush is 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;trying to do here). 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;But if, as the peaceniks like 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;to moan, more Bin Ladens will spring up to take his 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;place, I can offer this assurance: should that be the 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;case, there are many many more who will also spring up 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;to kill him all over again. And there are more of us 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;and we are both smarter and nicer, as well as 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;surprisingly insistent that our culture demands 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;respect, too. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;We're good and rich and wise and individualistic while Muslims 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;with their adamant moral principles are poor and bad? Do we 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;enough nukes to back that point of view over the long run? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;∑ Christopher Hitchens is a columnist for Vanity Fair. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Which is a much better source than, say, da Newyawkah. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
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