Benjamin Barber

[Jim Baldauf]

Very good, Meadow!
jb

----- Original Message -----
From: meadow <meadow@austin.rr.com>
To: telebob x <telebob98@hotmail.com>
Cc: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: Benjamin Barber


> tele wrote:
> "Vote?  We
> don't need no stinkin' votes! I am the Mullah/chief Poobah around here and
> what I say goes...and that's it! I serve the gruel up at 7:00 and shut up!
"
>
> sound familiar?
> just wondering,
> d
>
> telebob x wrote:
>
> > I cannot argue with the sentiments expressed by Benjamin Barber.  He is
> > right of course.  What needs to be exported from the USA (and what needs
to
> > be enhanced within the USA) is a sense of individual (and especially
> > corporate) responsibilty toward what is considered the "public good."
> > Darwinian business practices have to be ameliorated by a balancing rule
of
> > law that is equitably distributed.  Few of the undeveloped nations where
we
> > export our manufacturing for example have strong governments dedicated
to
> > some/any concept of "public good."  These governments exist mainly to
> > enforce and legitimize ruling power structures.  Their idea of
government is
> > not to increase the common wealth, but to increase personal wealth of
those
> > in power. No wonder companies are attracted to these areas.  Cheap
labor,
> > bribable local officials, first class hotels at bargain rates, this is
the
> > best of all possible worlds.
> >
> > My argument with Jon was that demonizing the US as an energy and
resource
> > hog, is a pink herring, since we do use a lot of the energy and
resources to
> > make products that are then re-exported to the rest of the world. It
makes
> > the stats more skewed to appear that we are consumers only of the worlds
> > resources.  Do we get the lions share?  Certainly it is
disproportionate,
> > but nothing lies like statistics badly interpreted.
> >
> > I have always thought that a basic course in ethics should be a part of
the
> > business school curriculum...just so the young MBA's that are turned out
> > have some passing acquaintence with the concept.
> >
> > But how we export a concept of rule of law equitably distributed is a
> > tougher sell, since the people such a thing would benefit are not
> > necessarily those in power.  It is easy to export greed and avarice,
fair
> > play is harder, especially for cultures where 'fairness and justice' is
a
> > foreign idea.
> >
> > One of the great cultural clashes that is going on has that rivalry at
its
> > very base.  The Islamic cultures are ones that are based on the rule of
men
> > and not of law. (Tribal style councils who settle disputes by
> > mandate...rather than juries of peers with clear cut laws).  Beyond the
> > psycho-sexual aspects as described in Jaxon's post, is the 'rage'
engendered
> > by the threat the radical fundamentalists (read patriarchal male
dominated
> > cultures) feel toward their own traditional power structures.  Vote?  We
> > don't need no stinkin' votes! I am the Mullah/chief Poobah around here
and
> > what I say goes...and that's it! I serve the gruel up at 7:00 and shut
up!
> > These are father types that remind me of Rodney Daingerfield in "Natural
> > Born Killers"....
> >
> > Oh well...and good morning to you too....
> >
> > Kisses,
> >
> > tele
> >
> > >From: "Jon Ford" <jonmfordster@hotmail.com>
> > >To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > >Subject: Benjamin Barber
> > >Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 15:46:35 -0800
> > >
> > >Barber is a fine thinker. Note what he says below (from the article
Wayne
> > >sent us), and note that what he is saying is pretty close to what I was
> > >saying (perhaps not clearly enough) a week or so ago in my exchange
with
> > >Bob-- we need to think about what we export to foreign countries, and
add
> > >some real values to the "value added" of our products!
> > >
> > >Jon
> > >
> > >
> > ><The underlying theme in all his work is democracy -- how to strengthen
> > >it, export it, describe the variations found in different countries.
> > >Neither the extremists of "Jihad" nor the capitalists that make up
> > >"McWorld" are serving democracy, he argues, because both evade or
ignore
> > >the process.
> > >
> > >"I said precisely that the war of Jihad versus McWorld, if it was not
> > >alleviated by global democracy, an international civic infrastructure,
> > >was likely to explode. These two sets of forces could not avoid
clashing
> > >and exploding; they were going to create nothing but death and
explosion
> > >unless we did this third thing, and we didn't.
> > >
> > >"The question is: Will we now? Will we now acknowledge the
> > >interdependence that has been demonstrated? Will we make
interdependence
> > >not just a matter of AIDS and global warming and weapons destruction
and
> > >terrorism, but will we make it a matter of global civic and political
> > >institutions? I think there are inducements that were not there before.
> > >
> > >"On September 10, when I talked about global democracy, people thought,
> > >'What a quaint, charming utopian that guy Barber is.' On September 12,
> > >they were saying what a political realist that guy is."
> > >
> > >Barber talks about a new "declaration of interdependence," which
> > >acknowledges that "no one nation can experience prosperity and plenty
> > >unless others do, too." America is a reluctant power, he says, and in
> > >this reluctance it communicates indifference and arrogance to other
> > >nations.
> > >
> > >"We want to be loved, to be understanding, to be sensitive, whereas
what
> > >the world wants from us is to use our power to construct a global
system
> > >that will let them take care of themselves. They don't need our
> > >sympathy, they don't want our sensitivity, they want a fair system that
> > >gives them a fair shake. Our sentimentalism sometimes gets in the way.
> > >We want to be "liked," you see what I'm saying? We are a very big
> > >elephant that thinks it's a large pussycat."
> > >
> > >Multinational corporations tend to prefer to operate in countries that
> > >impose few limits on their operations, Barber says. Those tend to be
> > >countries with anarchic, weak or corrupt governments, which also
provide
> > >a fertile breeding ground for terrorists. Although in this country
> > >capitalism has thrived within the "container" of regulation and civil
> > >society, America has failed to export or promote similar restraints
> > >overseas. "If we export capitalism without democracy, we breed anarchy
> > >and terrorism," he says.
> > >
> > >"It's now a matter of national security. Part of the war on terrorism
> > >has to be to address the conditions that produce terrorism, and that
has
> > >become a matter of necessity and not some intellectual vision of what a
> > >good world is. The hidden silver lining in this hideous, desperate
> > >terrorist act is the sense of what wonderful punishment for the
> > >terrorists -- if what they actually did was prompt us toward a more
> > >civic and democratic world. Imagine how upset they'd be!"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
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